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Discussion Starter #1
Have purchased 2 metal factory crimp tools for the perfect rolled edge on my Mec Grabber so I can replace the plastic tool. And neither of the metal ones work.
Cannot figure this out

anyone have a metal factory crimp tool that is made like the plastic one????

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Not quite sure what you are describing. Are you trying to get a roll crimp on your hulls? If so those are not the tools. The smooth cone crimp starters are used to recrimp paper hulls, and some folks use them to crimp 6-point and 8-point plastic hulls interchangeably.

If the plastic one does what you want, why change to the old style metal ones?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The plastic one doesn’t work as good as I want it. These metal roll crimps are supposed to help roll the edge on a star crimp I believe.
 

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I have no clue what the two right tools are, they certainly aren't for 410.

If you are looking for the FINAL crimp die (station 6) ebay is probably your only chance.

My guess is this part only ever existed on a REALLY old 650, I believe the grabber and 9000 came out after they went to plastic, i don't recall ever seeing either with steel dies.

That being said, I cannot envision a circumstance where having steel instead of plastic here would be an advantage. You will never get a taper on a 410 like you'll get on a 12ga, so you're probably looking for something unachievable. As long as the shells will feed properly in your pump or auto, they're just fine, and if you're shooting a break action you don't NEED taper anyways.

What you may be able to do is fabricobble a sleeve into one of the two left dies to take up the diameter difference.
 

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One of my toys is a Remington 870 410 with a Phillip's release. It will feed a hull if you rack it like you mean it.

The Winchester 42 was made for paper hulls, and tends to be finicky with plastics. It seems to prefer the 3" hull, but they are expensive to buy and difficult to load.

One can set the two final dies to get a fair amount of taper on a MEC progressive press. The crimp depth must be a little deeper than most factory ammo. The critical stack height must be correct in this most delightful shotshell.
 

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The old Grabber given to me had a metal die for station 4, 5, and 6. The paper hulls were getting stuck in station 6 so I removed it. It was rusty inside and I got tired of removing it to keep the rust out. Still haven't bought the plastic one for it. I had a plastic die for station 5 and installed it. MG, at one time, with too much time on my hands I actually roll crimped some shells on a Mec JR. But it was too tedious. The smooth start crimp has to be adjusted just right, the extra shell above the OS card has to be just the right length, and you have to pull just hard enough on the last two stations to make it work. Plus I made up a extra long plunger for station 5. If I remember I was loading 2 or 2 1/2" shells. Now, that new " Slugger " they offer has my interest for roll crimping. They won't sell just the dies, but it does roll crimp a slug. I ask Mec once about using it for shot and a OS card, but they said it wouldn't work. If I had the extra money I'd but one just to see if I could make it work. Oh well. And, it's the last stage in a progressive press that puts the taper on the end of a shell. That's why Mec put another station on the press. it's much easier than adjusting the crimp die on a single stage. Read the following- I copied it from another thread from what someone else wrote. It's actually two replies about SS Mec presses. Yes, you can fool around with the adjustments with a progressive press for the taper, but there's no reason to. Just adjust station 6.
When adjusting the crimp station, the CAM is the LAST thing you adjust. Adjust the crimp starter first, then adjust the seating stem to get the proper depth. When you are getting a correct fold of the crimp petals, and the correct depth set, THEN adjust the cam to eliminate the flare. NOTE The cam adjustment should be set at least 2/3 of the way up, while the other adjustments are being made. Then, and only then, lower the cam enough to eliminate the flare.


The roller will not touch the cam (or at least not have any force put on it by the cam) at the very bottom of the stroke. BUT, more cam means the cam will touch the roller and apply force to it longer (further down) in the stroke. The cam has a fairly sharp shoulder or lobe on it. When you start down with the press the roller rolls on the cam (because this part of the cam is circular) and the outer (plastic) part of the die is pushed down by the cam and roller. Until you get around 1/2-3/4 of the way down, everything I have said so far remains true regardless of where the cam is set. However, the cam is rotating as you come down. Eventually the cam rotates to the point when the roller goes past the shoulder on the cam. Past this point the cam is no longer circular. As you come on down the cam puts less and less pressure on the roller. But, the center punch will come on down because it is fastened solidly to the top of the press. If the roller gets past the shoulder of the cam too early in the stroke you will end up with the punch coming on down on the center of the crimp and this tending to squeeze the top of the shell outward. But the plastic part of the die is not coming on down, which means it cannot prevent the top of the shell from flaring outward. It takes a lot of fine tuning to get this just right. There is a reason why Mec adds the final taper die to the Grabber and 9000. Having a separate die that is used strictly to get some taper makes things a lot simpler.

Most people do NOT have straight in their minds what the CAM actually does. There are all kinds of convoluted beliefs as to what it actually does.

Adding more cam, (Lowering it at the adjustment slot), causes the crimp die to lower slightly at the near bottom of the stroke. The die has a taper at the top of the die, that when pushed lower, will in fact push the flare at the end of the hull inward, closing the hole in the center tighter, and usually will eliminate the flare and in fact may leave the end of the hull slightly rounded.

SO, in most cases, a properly adjusted CAM will reduce or eliminate the flare on the end of the hull, and probably leave it slightly rounded.
 

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The plastic one doesn’t work as good as I want it. These metal roll crimps are supposed to help roll the edge on a star crimp I believe.
F94F2A2E-DDC4-4646-BD56-C6C935202494.jpeg

I use the Gaep finisher on my 20gs turkey loads that I fold. I don’t know if it is available in 410 bore but if it is it will achieve what you are looking for
 

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Thats a nice crimp, T.

I was playing around the other day and changed the contour of the final crimp ram (again) you can geta gist of the shape, it turns out you can make a final crimp that is dish proof, allowing some variarion of the stack hight without any adjustments, within reason. Since I see you are more into this than I thought, I thought you might find this interesting.

IMG_1308.PNG
 

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Very nice!!!!!!
Thats a nice crimp, T.

I was playing around the other day and changed the contour of the final crimp ram (again) you can geta gist of the shape, it turns out you can make a final crimp that is dish proof, allowing some variarion of the stack hight without any adjustments, within reason. Since I see you are more into this than I thought, I thought you might find this interesting.

View attachment 1689283
 

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It’s that “beveled crimp” that I think the op is looking for. I’ve adjusted the cam on my final crimp to get that. Are you raising the final crimp ram Shotgun Reloader?
 

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With a single stage Mec, all you guys have to do is read my post to get a bevel with a Mec. A Gaep tool is unnecessary. The cam is adjusted after you get the ram putting the proper depth to the crimp. raising or lowering the ram will only put more or less depth to the crimp.
 

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You are correct, it took me a while to get it set exactly as I want it. I had the Gaep tools already
With a single stage Mec, all you guys have to do is read my post to get a bevel with a Mec. A Gaep tool is unnecessary. The cam is adjusted after you get the ram putting the proper depth to the crimp. raising or lowering the ram will only put more or less depth to the crimp.
 
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