As mentioned above, gun fit makes a big difference in felt recoil and also is a big bonus in the number of targets you'll hit. The cheapest way to reduce recoil is to use the lightest shell to get the job done. I wish I now had all the shot and powder I blew out the end of the barrel thinking it takes a big load to break a target. I use a lighter load on the 27 now than I use to use on the 16. Also use the least amount of choke to do the job, more choke - more kick. Robert
#3 Question from a new shooter
Hello: On a daily basic I get a rather large amount of PM's, asking questions about shooting, making adjustments to guns, questions on trapshooting in general. I have had some of the newer shooters ask me to relay their questions with my answers on a thread, as some feel it would help the newer shooter. I will try to submit their questions and my answers if possible on a daily basis. If any of you seasoned shooters disagree with my answers, and or would like to add any comments, feel free to pitch in and give us your opinion too. This thread is intended to help the newer shooter. Steve Balistreri
Adam writes" What are your thoughts of adding a recoil reducer to stop recoil"?
At the present time I do not have a recoil reducer in my gun. Reason being, the recoil I have in my gun is very tolerable. I have a stock that fits, it is cast left, because I am a left handed shooter, and I personally do not enjoy lifting a real heavy gun. At my age, lifting a 10 to 12 lb. gun would exhaust me after a 100 target event. I also believe that you can not totally stop recoil in a shotgun, but you can sure lessen the perceived recoil to a tolerable amount to enjoy your shooting experience.
In the past, I have used recoil reducers. I always felt and this is my opinion only, that if I placed a recoil reducer in the stock, I also wanted to add the same amount of weight to the forend. I felt if I just added a reducer to the stock, the barrel felt to light and wippy for my personal style of shooting.
With that being said, I do believe that less recoil equals less fatigue and possibly more targets broken. Remember, any amount of weight added to a shotgun should equal less perceived recoil. I know of shooters that do not want to spend the money for a recoil reducer, so they will add lead weight to the stock and possibly forend.
Shoot it for awhile and see what happens. If you don't like the way it feels you can always remove it.
Steve Balistreri
Adam writes" What are your thoughts of adding a recoil reducer to stop recoil"?
At the present time I do not have a recoil reducer in my gun. Reason being, the recoil I have in my gun is very tolerable. I have a stock that fits, it is cast left, because I am a left handed shooter, and I personally do not enjoy lifting a real heavy gun. At my age, lifting a 10 to 12 lb. gun would exhaust me after a 100 target event. I also believe that you can not totally stop recoil in a shotgun, but you can sure lessen the perceived recoil to a tolerable amount to enjoy your shooting experience.
In the past, I have used recoil reducers. I always felt and this is my opinion only, that if I placed a recoil reducer in the stock, I also wanted to add the same amount of weight to the forend. I felt if I just added a reducer to the stock, the barrel felt to light and wippy for my personal style of shooting.
With that being said, I do believe that less recoil equals less fatigue and possibly more targets broken. Remember, any amount of weight added to a shotgun should equal less perceived recoil. I know of shooters that do not want to spend the money for a recoil reducer, so they will add lead weight to the stock and possibly forend.
Shoot it for awhile and see what happens. If you don't like the way it feels you can always remove it.
Steve Balistreri
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Robert:
When I first started shooting the people that I shot with thought that if you did not shoot heavy 3 dr. 7 1/2 shells and a full choke you were a wimp. After 40 years I got smart. I now shoot 1 oz. shells along with a modified barrel. My scores have also gone up. Thanks for your great advice.
Steve
When I first started shooting the people that I shot with thought that if you did not shoot heavy 3 dr. 7 1/2 shells and a full choke you were a wimp. After 40 years I got smart. I now shoot 1 oz. shells along with a modified barrel. My scores have also gone up. Thanks for your great advice.
Steve
I've only been shooting for a year now,shooting an XT trap. I have the factory pad w/o a recoil reducer and it seems just fine. I load my own, loading soft loads of 1oz and seem to be doing well.Recoil is less an issue than my weight-forward condition. After 150 shells, i'm usually ready to pack it in and call it a day.
Lead in the stock is starting to sound pretty good.
Lead in the stock is starting to sound pretty good.
I've only been shooting for a year now,shooting an XT trap. I have the factory pad w/o a recoil reducer and it seems just fine. I load my own, loading soft loads of 1oz and seem to be doing well.Recoil is less an issue than my weight-forward condition. After 150 shells, i'm usually ready to pack it in and call it a day.
Lead in the stock is starting to sound pretty good.
Lead in the stock is starting to sound pretty good.
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neofight:
I never shot a XT but it sure looks like a nice gun.
Steve
I never shot a XT but it sure looks like a nice gun.
Steve
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Dear Abby:
I once shot in a major state shoot with a guy who continuously interrupted the squad by going back to the rack to try a different 870; about a half dozen. I still managed to break the 200 but the rest of the squad suffered miserably. What should have been done?
I once shot in a major state shoot with a guy who continuously interrupted the squad by going back to the rack to try a different 870; about a half dozen. I still managed to break the 200 but the rest of the squad suffered miserably. What should have been done?
Bertmuss - "more choke, more kick". How so? Hadn't heard that one. What is the physics of that?
Thanks,
Doc
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The same physics that prevents some people from telling gun fit, gun weight and recoil reducing devices apart. Good gun fit is good, a heavier gun, within reason is also very good as is reducing the load, within reason but recoil reducers also work very well indeed. The same extremely well fitted gun, using a sensible load WILL have much better shooting characteristics and lower felt recoil with almost any recoil reducer fitted. You may reach your tolerance level without these but they are seperate entities to weight of gun/shot or gun fit. Oh, and by the way, tight chokes don`t recoil more.
Thanks,
Doc
=================================================
The same physics that prevents some people from telling gun fit, gun weight and recoil reducing devices apart. Good gun fit is good, a heavier gun, within reason is also very good as is reducing the load, within reason but recoil reducers also work very well indeed. The same extremely well fitted gun, using a sensible load WILL have much better shooting characteristics and lower felt recoil with almost any recoil reducer fitted. You may reach your tolerance level without these but they are seperate entities to weight of gun/shot or gun fit. Oh, and by the way, tight chokes don`t recoil more.
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Kojar: I would have tried to get the scorekeeper to say something. The problem these days is the scorekeepers are usually kids who are either too intimidated or clueless to say anything. Last year at the state shoot there was a shooter who took 1-2 minutes to shoot, every time. Had to wiggle, scratch, look for devine guidance, etc. Drove everyone nuts.
Yansica1 - Agree 100% with everything you said. Fit is everything and probably the number 1 way to reduce felt recoil. My question - as yours -regarded the "more choke, more kick" statement. I guess being on about my fifth reading of Dr. AC Jones' fantastic book "Sporting Shotgun Performance", you learn to appreciate that about 95% of all "conventional wisdom" is nonsense - and provably so.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the basis of the "more choke, more kick" statement and I ask your help with this, Yans. What, exactly, do you suppose might be Bertmuss' line of thinking? A tight choke makes the shot "bunch up" in the choke area, forcing a rearward reaction?
Would love to hear a response from Neill Winston on this one.
Bertmuss - want to weig back in on that - just curious.
Doc
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the basis of the "more choke, more kick" statement and I ask your help with this, Yans. What, exactly, do you suppose might be Bertmuss' line of thinking? A tight choke makes the shot "bunch up" in the choke area, forcing a rearward reaction?
Would love to hear a response from Neill Winston on this one.
Bertmuss - want to weig back in on that - just curious.
Doc
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Dick:
Under the circumstances, that had to be one of the greatest shooting exhibitions I have ever witnessed. You are a great knowledgeable shooter who I have always looked up to.
Steve
Under the circumstances, that had to be one of the greatest shooting exhibitions I have ever witnessed. You are a great knowledgeable shooter who I have always looked up to.
Steve
Hi EXFDX,
First I have to make an admission in that up until I joined a few internet forums where if one is careful it is possible to glean very useful true information, I too used to believe the adage.
The theory goes something along the lines of comparing the shotgun tube to that of a water hose where constricting the nozzle leads to backward pressure and of course greater range of water spray. This is one of those easy to see and thus easy to be fooled by phenomenon. Back in my early days of English Sporting in the UK my choke of choice was 1/4 and whenever something as tight as 3/4 or full was used I felt as though there was more recoil. Many pages of reasoned arguments from both sides led me to accept that it cannot have been so, the best explanation I can fathom is that the harder smoking clays could reinforce a false sense of greater power leading to harder recoil perception. So whoever said perception is reality has a point of sorts.
The same source of useful information that is available so freely is also unfortunately responsible for the conventional wisdom nonsense you referred to! I am afraid there is no better alternative to real life experience in deciphering the good from the bad. The good Doctor and his no doubt excellent book is a case in point as it happens. He has shot and analysed thousands of patterns and if you are wise you can use the data to your benefit. He however, continues to dodge my offer of riches to prove to him the error of his ways where reading breaks are concerned. I can take being wrong on the chin, others cannot.
Recoil is the product of gun weight V shot charge and velocity, period. To increase recoil tight chokes have to somehow increase velocity which they don`t so they cannot lead to more recoil.
First I have to make an admission in that up until I joined a few internet forums where if one is careful it is possible to glean very useful true information, I too used to believe the adage.
The theory goes something along the lines of comparing the shotgun tube to that of a water hose where constricting the nozzle leads to backward pressure and of course greater range of water spray. This is one of those easy to see and thus easy to be fooled by phenomenon. Back in my early days of English Sporting in the UK my choke of choice was 1/4 and whenever something as tight as 3/4 or full was used I felt as though there was more recoil. Many pages of reasoned arguments from both sides led me to accept that it cannot have been so, the best explanation I can fathom is that the harder smoking clays could reinforce a false sense of greater power leading to harder recoil perception. So whoever said perception is reality has a point of sorts.
The same source of useful information that is available so freely is also unfortunately responsible for the conventional wisdom nonsense you referred to! I am afraid there is no better alternative to real life experience in deciphering the good from the bad. The good Doctor and his no doubt excellent book is a case in point as it happens. He has shot and analysed thousands of patterns and if you are wise you can use the data to your benefit. He however, continues to dodge my offer of riches to prove to him the error of his ways where reading breaks are concerned. I can take being wrong on the chin, others cannot.
Recoil is the product of gun weight V shot charge and velocity, period. To increase recoil tight chokes have to somehow increase velocity which they don`t so they cannot lead to more recoil.
Amen on the recoil, Yans. And it's called PERCEIVED or FELT recoil for the very reasons you mention. I understand AC's point on "reading" breaks. Centrifugal force makes them hard to read, I think is what he is basically saying. As far as "reading" them for myself, I usually just wait for the movie. ;-)
Doc
Doc
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