[senior smoke]

Hello:
First of all, I am not a good trapshooter. I have been shooting since 1970, and I can count on one hand how many times I have won ATA events. The furthest I was ever handicaped was at 25 1/2 yards.

I have not shot ATA tournaments for the past 7 years due to health issues, but hope to start in the very near future again. With that being said, I know the game, but I just can't implement what I have learned in order to break good scores. I have spent a lot of money over the years on this sport and plain and simple,I just love this sport and like almost everyone that I have met over the years that participates in this game.

Some of you might find it hard to believe but I wish the ATA would go back to the 3 hole target. Years ago, the Waukesha gun club was the last club in my area who switched from 3 hole targets to the 2 hole. Vic Reinders was one of the main reasons for this.

Other clubs in my area switched to the 2 hole early as they felt, the better scores that shooters shot, they would be more likely to come back and shoot at their particular club.

I am probably different than most shooters as I could care less what my average is. For some reason some shooters feel that other shooters care what another shooters average is, and sorry to say, that's not the case.

The few wins that I have had were probably flukes, as I just had a very hot day. My most memorable handicap win was shot on 3 hole handicap targets in a wind storm, and I won with a score of 78. This win was my most memorable.

Personally, I wish averages would be replaced and state and All American teams would be based primarily on Wins. To me, when a shooter won a tournament in the 3 hole, that was something to be proud of. When a 27 yard shooter won a handicap tournament shooting 3 hole targets, now that was something for all to admire and they were owed the respect do him or her.

I remember years ago, when the ATA switched back from the 2 hole to the 3 hole and it lasted only one year. We all put our pants on one leg at a time, and it's time to revert back to the 3 hole target. It's time to seperate the pretenders in this sport to shooters who deserve to shoot on the 27 yard line.

If you recall, when the 3 hole was reinacted, there were 27 yard shooters taking reductions faster than if they had a bus transfer. If you have read the history of the ATA we have previously gone with low attendance. This back in the depression years.

I have never met a shooter who one day just hated to shoot. All politics a side, once the economy improves, attendance will rise, and that just might be the right time to go back to our roots and institute the 3 hole target.

Now, do you agree , or not?
Steve Balistreri

 

[V10]

Any club can throw "3-hole" targets, if they want to.

There is no rule against it.

 

[senior smoke]

V10:
I'm talking ATA tournament targets, local clubs can throw 1 hole targets if they want so shooters come back.
Steve

 

[Traders]

Please explain. What are 3 hole targets? What are 1 hole targets?

 

[scooterbum]

V10,

We are looking for the word to be "must", not "can". Get real!

 

[V10]

You volunteering to be the target setting police, bum?

 

[Beretta687EELL]

Most clubs won't do it because shooters will go where they can break better scores. Many clubs do not throw regulation speed targets now, so they sure won't go to the three hole target, even if the ATA mandated it. Bill Malcolm

 

[Beretta687EELL]

Traders, The hole refers to how wide the angles are. A three hole target is wider than a two hole. Bill Malcolm

 

[timb99]

When I shoot DTL over here in South Africa, they are three hole targets. It's really not that different. I would not object to ATA mandating it.

 

[senior smoke]

When you go to the grand, how many straights are being shot with 2 hole targets? It's getting ridiculous.
Steve

 

[V10]

I'm not opposed to it either, Tim. But how is going to be enforced?

It used to be the rule. But that didn't seem to matter to some clubs, or shooters.

I'll ask it again, who is going to be the target setting police? And I'll add, what will be their sanction for failure to comply?

 

[oleolliedawg]

The ATA didn't have the guts to enforce the rule in the first place. What makes you think anything's changed!!

 

[scooterbum]

v10,

Really, are you being stupid, or are you just disingenuous?

 

[V10]

I take it, bum, that you don't want to be the target setting police.

 

[scooterbum]

V10,

It really doesn't matter. You and your kind don't follow the rules anyway. Carry on, watch the decline.

 

[V10]

I see. You believe that a "must throw 3-hole targets" rule will be followed.

Just like it was before, right?

Oh, wait. It wasn't followed.

 

[senior smoke]

Personally, if a club wants to throw practice cream puff targets, go a head. But if you want to have an ATA tournament, you have to throw 3 hole targets.

Trust me, if that's the rule, many ATA shooters will file complaints to the ATA if a club does not follow it.
Steve

 

[Ken Brandt]

Personally I don't give a rip what hole the machine is set in. Just throw the damn target and I'll try and hit it. If I miss it's MY FAULT.

V10 seem's to be the only one who is asking the right question's. All he is asking is how you enforce the rule? Steve say's shooter's will file complaint's if the setting is wrong. To that I say 99% of shooter's can't tell 2 hole from 3 hole now. What if they file a complaint and it is proven they we're legal target's, then what? Who do you blame then?

How about we quit trying to fix something that in the over-all scheme of thing's is only a very small part of what is supposedly wrong with our sport. What we should be focusing on is how to get more people involved in the sport we all love.
Promotion and personal involvement will do more good that arguing about setting will ever do.

How about this, I challenge everyone on this site to bring a new shooter to the gun club this year. Don't tell them what's wrong, tell them what's right with the sport. That will do more goood than arguing about 2-hole versus 3-hole.

Respectfully submited Ken Brandt

 

[senior smoke]

Prior to going to the two hole target, we did not seem to have a problem. Today, we have numerous shooters who have never shot at 3 hole targets. If I owned a gun club, I can understand that shooters who shoot higher scores at your club would want to come back and shoot more targets.

But I don't know of any other sport that makes a course easier when there is tournament play. They make it more difficult because the participants are supposeldly the best and they should be able to handle it.

Maybe, just maybe, someone who either can't handle the more difficult targets being thrown, should stick to practice shooting 2 hole targets as that inflats his scores and possibly his or her ego.

In my mind these individuals are pretenders. If I win a tournament, I want legal 3 hole targets, and want to compete against the best. Should I have a hot shooting day, I can walk away with pride knowing I did my best against what was being thrown, and I won against top competition.

If my way of thinking is flawed tell me, but I honestly feel that most seasoned ATA shooters feel the same way. Most shooters I know don't want to compete against the sisters of the poor and cream puff targets.
Steve

 

[tom berry]

seems kind of easy to enforce the three hole rule to me.

1. Require all clubs using pat traps to install a bar between the angle switches that is measured a certain length. Or simply require the switches to be x inches apart.

2. Any club still using Winchester traps it's pretty easy to tell if the 3 hole is being used.

3. Any other type of trap must have some sort of angle adjustment. Have the factory advise what the adjustment must be to throw the required angles.

now the enforcement part. Allow any shooter to challenge the target setting and if the angle adjustments on any trap are found to be out of spec all scores previously shot will be deemed void due to the rules violation. It won't take long for the clubs to police themselves. No one will shot at a club that might be violating the rules and risk their scores not counting.

Personally I really don't care what the angles are. But this belief that the ATA couldn't enforce the rule is pure silliness. They can enforce it to the degree they choose to.