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Gentlemen: Looking at a box of 12 ga. shells, the box states

Gauage Inches DR.EQ. Oz. Lead Shot

Question: On the Dr.EQ. it states 3, how many grains of powder is this
and how do you convert. I have checked the different conversion tables
and they show that 19 grains(#33) bushing is .69 drams. Makes no sense.
Please convert the 3 Dr.EQ. to grains.

Thanks
David
 

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There is no conversion. The Dram (physical measure) was used for Black Powder. Then later, was just kind-of-carried over into the Smokeless era.
 

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The "equivalency" refers to the blackpowder equivalent.

In other words, the smokeless powder load you are looking at is similar to a 3 dram blackpowder load.

Three dram equivalent is generally taken to mean 1200 feet per second.

As long as your smokeless powder load runs at approximately 1200 fps, everything else being equal, you should be ok.
 

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Also when using a #33 bushing, it will not be 19 grains for all powders. The bushing #'s and grains vary from powder to powder.---Matt
 

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I don't know why shell manufacturers continue to print this silly information on the boxes. I doubt if many today care about the comparison with black powder. All they have to do is print the muzzle velocity and forget about dram equivalent.

Oh, and there is no equivalent in grains because it depends on the type of powder and other shell components.
 

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dkimbler:

I think you're you're whistling Dixie.

Dr.EQ.is an abbreviation for dram equivalent. Drams are a unit of measure for black powder. Dram equivalents are a way of comparing the SPEED of a modern shotshell (loaded with smokeless propellents) to old shells loaded with black powder.

A 12 gauge shell loaded with any modern propellent that gets you to approximately 1200 fps velocity is the equivalent of an old shell loaded with 3 drams of black powder.

There is no single conversion factor that converts drams to grains of (smokeless) powder because smokeless powders vary in density. As an example, other things being equal, it takes more grains of Green Dot to achieve 1200 fps than it does for a 1200 fps load using Red Dot.

sissy

PS: check your private messages
 

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dkimbler

As grntitan points out a #33 bushing won't drop 19 grains of all powders. Actually, a #33 bushing may not drop 19 grains of ANY powder.

The values listed in powder bushing charts are only an approximation. They are intended to give you a starting point. Furthermore, the chart values are based on single stage loaders such as a MEC 600, Jr. If you load with a progressive (like MEC 650s, Grabbers, or 9000's) the bushing will throw noticiably lighter charges than those listed on the charts.

The only way to know how much powder you get with a given bushing is to weigh several charges on a reliable scale. Anything else is only a guess and a very bad way to load.

sissy
 

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Basically, you can't get there from here ............ unless you want to know how many grains there are in 3 drams of black powder. That figures out to be 82.03215 grains in 3 drams. So you should be able to see that modern smokeless powders are much more efficient.

http://convert-to.com/conversion/weight/convert-dr-to-gr.html

The term "3 dram equivelent" refers to the "olden days" when black powder was used in shotgun shells. 3 drams of black powder would drive 1 1/8 oz. of shot at a velocity of 1200 fps.

Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
 

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Having competed with black powder shotguns quite extensively in years past, we used a simple formula....equal volumes of powder and shot. This would be unheard of with smokeless powder. It did make things simple, though, only having to use one dipper.

Never chrono'd a black powder load but a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz dipper of shot on top of a like volume of 2Fg seemed to be about the same performance level as my standard red dot load in AA hulls.

We also shot black in damascus barrelled guns and seemed to have a load like this: 75-80 grains black, one .125 card, one 1/2" fiber, 1 1/8 oz shot, fold or roll crimp. Shot a 25 straight in Wis. using an old American Gun Co double. Plastic wads were an abomination with black powder.
 

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Dram Equivalents are like using "Horsepower" to rate an engine made of metal that does not run on hay and grain. It's an old comparison used to reference newwer smokeless powder loads to the older blackpowder loads. It has a bit to do with velocity and there is no reference to the charge weights of modern powders, except for the velocity developed for a specific payload.
 

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I`m with Jawari2000. I`ts 2010! Why even print this info on the box?
Who cares??

DKIMBLER, I`m not trying to be a smart a--, but I would strongly suggest that you do a lot more research before you attempt to reload any shells.

Regards, Pete
 
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