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Discussion Starter #1
So with a group of shooters on the 27 complaining that its unfair to them when the "Big Dogs" or "Pro's" are on the same yardage as them i got to thinking.

Does a shooter on the 27 that struggles to carry a mid 80's average on that 27 really have a bitch? I mean it seems to me if a shooter is averaging mid 80's from 27 he ain't taking his reductions to where he should be and thus doesn't have a legit bitch. What if he only registers several hundred Handicap a year and averages that low to mid 80's? Does he have a dog in that fight? Please set me straight if i'm viewing this thru foggy glasses.

Now my point here is not whether the system should be changed or not. I'm not interested in hearing that arguement once again. I just want to know at what point a 27 yarder has a valid gripe. Simply what average would he have to carry from the fence? I'm also not bashing anyone that refuses their reduction. That is YOUR choice.

Now some may look at this as a stab at them or trolling or whatever. Not my intention!!! I honestly think its a valid question and i'm confused.



Matt
 

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Matt, maybe its like climbing a mountain, once you get to the top you don't want to come down, because you may never get back up there again. John
 

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Well, Matt, I've made the 27yd. line several times. The first time, I stayed there for a season and finally decided to take the offered reduction. After a considerable time away from shooting I came back and made the 27 again;still not competitive, so I have taken several reductions again. To your question; I never bitched nor begrudged the shooters that shot well from there. I always competed against myself and felt that it was up to me to get better and be a respectable (whatever that is) 27 yd. shooter. My intensions are to get back there again. If I ever do,at my age, I may just stay there. But I won't be bitching about someone else being there. If I can't compete with them, I feel that it's ludricous to complain about it. To each his own. JMHO

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #4
John & Steve--I guess that's kinda what i'm say'n. If you refuse your reduction from 27 yards and are not carrying a competing average, do you really have a gripe? I honestly can undertand somebody finally reaching the fence and wanting to stay. Hell i may never make it myself but if i ever do who knows what i'll do if i can't hold it. I just can't see someone having a gripe when average wise they don't belong there in the first place.

Matt
 

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John, how's the winter treating you?

I am a bit tired of it by now. To say the least.

Supposed to warm up today, we just have to put up with the -40 wind chill and the blowing snow.

See ya at the first nice one this year.

Rick in Sunny balmy Mt.
 

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After 25+ years on the 27, I was not competitive any longer. I took the reductions, and I'm still not competitive. Maybe I should go back to the 20 and start over again....LOL
 

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If you're not averaging at least 92% from the 27 you're not competetive. The system will not allow most 27 yd. shooters to ever be competetive as the break point for reductions is too high. Personally, I think it's fun to pop out some 90's scores from back there with my minimal amount of practice.

My question is why would anyone care about how I shoot from the fence when the person doing the questioning needs binoculars to see me from where he's standing!!
 

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grntitan, I'm on the 27 and you don't here me whinning. I also don't think they have a legit bit-h. Just some whiners. They are in all sports. If you don't like the ata set up move on there are other shotgun sports. They would be whiners there also. Thats my 2 cents. Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Andy-- Why so defensive? Do you fit the category i described or something?? Seems i caught one with a bare hook. I'll be damn.

Matt(nothing to hide)on the 20.5
 

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No Matt, just smart enough to know that over 90% of Handicap event shooters are over-handicapped by the rules regardless of where they stand!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok Andy.. Just make sure when you TRY and poke fun at people that you shouldn't actually be poke'n at yourself. I could name names and stats as you have but i don't play that way. I usually try and smoke 'em out of the hole. Thanks for playing.

You know what? As much as i've grown to dislike you lately, i respect your opinion without getting upset. Your intitled to that opinion here in AMERICA.

Good luck on that 27. Don't be suprised someday if when i'm given the amount of time you've had shooting that you turn around one day and i'm there too.

Matt(been shooting registered since 2006)
 

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I don't really think that shooters who are on the 27 yardline complain as much as people want to believe they do ... There are a majority of shooters on the 27 yardline who cannot compete with the Big Dogs, but in reality there are shooters on every yardline including the 20,21,22,23, yardline and so on that can't compete with them either ... The 27 yardline is an expensive piece of property and once you earn it you don't want to give it up ... I honestly do not believe or cannot remember having ever heard another shooter whine, bitch, complain or worry about not being able to compete with the Big Dogs ...
Its something that people talk about when they don't have anything else to talk about ... There are a lot of people out there who want to protect the 27 yard shooter from him or herself and worry about the money they spend when they probably won't win when in actuality thats nobody's business but the one who puts up the money ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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The rules must be followed regardless whether or not your in total agreement with all of them. Any shooter earning his place at the max can stand there till he falls over regardless of what the scores may be! It's earned, not given. My question is this; could that decision also make any differences whatsoever in added money divisions, or, could it not?

Anyone know how "ADDED" money is divided or doled out among various groups at the grandest of all shoots,the Grand American or other shoots where ATA money is added?

Hap
 

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Discussion Starter #16
WPT and Hap, I do totally agree with you guys that it's YOUR choice to take an offered reduction or not. I have not and never will knock someone for their decision to refuse reduction. My point was not whether you should or not but rather if that person refuses do they have an arguement of a broken system?

WPT--Your right, not alot of complainers but some.

HAP--as for the money i'll admit i'm not educated myself to have a just arguement.

Matt
 

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Matt,
"NO" would be the answer to your question ... I do not feel the long yardage shooters are the ones who contiually complain about a broken system, I think that echo's from the middle and short yardage shooters ... Phil Kiner's survey proved that if I'm not mistaken ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
WPT--Yeah Phil's survey did show that but even then it's not a reflection of ALL shooters in that category just like my statement of the 27 yarders i guess. It only covered those who answered. Kinda like here on TS.Com, we often think that our opinons here reflect those of the whole ATA. We just can't be sure until they ALL answer.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Andy depends on how you look at it. My 90 at 20.5 is not very competitive i agree. Nor is your 86% at 27. We both suck i guess. HUH??

Matt
 
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