when is a stock called “trap” vs using “ monte carlo” to explain stock comb type - and who originally came up with monte carlo
trap stock or monte carlo
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acss
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Monte Carlo and straight stocks appear on 'Trap' configurations for classics like the 870 and more. Colloquially it's an '870 trap stock'
But, as you mention, the 'Trap stock' is then divided between straight and monte carlo. Each of those have about the same amount of drop, but the monte carlo has a lower toe.
For reference from an expert:
But, as you mention, the 'Trap stock' is then divided between straight and monte carlo. Each of those have about the same amount of drop, but the monte carlo has a lower toe.
For reference from an expert:
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I always figured it was just an option for gun fit. Personally it always seems like the Monte Carlo is a more natural mount for me.
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@acss : are you asking only about the terminology used specifically by Beretta for their semi-autos? (Perhaps to ensure you accurately describe Beretta stocks you have for sale)? If so, I've noticed that Beretta is not very consistent in their terminology (translation problems and "marketing hype" . . . and this problem is not limited to their buttstocks).
However, if you are asking about Monte Carlo "in general", I think it's like this:
According to shotgunning lore, the original meaning of Monte Carlo is like jjhess said above. Long ago, Live Pigeon shooters in Monte Carlo modified existing field stocks (that's basically all that existed back then) by building up the comb on their stock higher/parallel, which seemed to work better on live bird competitions. Or at least, that's the legend passed down to us over several generations.
But what about today? What's it mean when a gun manufacturer offers a Monte Carlo stock? It's just like Bshell said above . . . on a Monte Carlo stock that's designed that way from the beginning, it's that "notch" at the rear of the comb that defines it as a Monte Carlo . . . the recoil pad is dropped lower (the Drop at Heel dimension) than where it would have been without the notch. Maybe we shouldn't call such out-of-the-box stocks "Monte Carlo" but instead call them "Monte Carlo style". So, to me, any stock that has that "notch" is a Monte Carlo style, and I would describe it as such.
You get the same effect by installing an adjustable recoil pad and dropping the pad lower. Because it's that sudden increase in the Drop at Heel measurement that makes a Monte Carlo. So, yes, Monte Carlo is an option for stock fit as Model12Dave said, and helps explain the popularity of adjustable pads on Trap guns.
Not all Trap stocks are Monte Carlo. Not all Monte Carlo stocks are Trap stocks. Gun manufacturers are free to include the pad-lowering "notch" on any stock style they want (see drawings below). So, yeah, a shooter could have a Monte Carlo sloping-comb field stock if that's what fits him best.
And especially on today's Trap guns, when a manufacturer offers a regular (non-Monte) and a Monte Carlo stock option on the same gun, the comb on the Monte Carlo stock is not necessarily higher as many believe. Often, the Drop at Comb dimensions are the same on the two stocks. In other words, the manufacturer's Monte Carlo stock is not the manufacturer's regular stock with the comb built up higher . . . rather, it's his regular stock with the recoil pad lowered (see final drawing below).
Anyway, that's my opinion/experience.
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AFAIK the Winchester Model 1897 "Tournament", introduced in 1909 was the first (almost) parallel comb competition gun
![Image]()
![Image]()
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Feb. 11, 1893 Sporting Life
MODIFIED GUN STOCK.
"Something New From England Which Isn't Popular"
A representative English gun firm [W&C Scott & Son] recently devised a new gun stock which is quite a novelty, but not likely to find favor with many sportsmen. The firm terms the new stock a "modified stock." This stock, while retaining the extreme drop at the butt, has a parallel bend along the face line from the comb to five or six inches back, giving the same alignment at any point between these limits, subject in some cases to slight modifications.
It is generally conceded that shooting is greatly improved when the stock fits easily against the face at the moment of sighting. This cannot always be obtained when the drop of the stock continuously increases from the comb to the extreme butt. As most guns used by American sportsmen have a bend of one and three-fourths inches at comb to three inches or more at butt, there is an increasing slope of about one-fourth-inch between these points. It follows that in shooting a high-flying bird the face presses against the stock nearer the comb than when aiming at a low-flying bird or ground game; therefore, according to the flight, high or low, so the sight is taken at various distances from the comb and practically increasing or diminishing the bend of the gun at each shot.
English and continental sportsmen for years have used stocks parallel from comb to butt, but the extreme drop of guns which has prevailed with American sportsmen, although there is now a tendency to use straight stocks, has interfered with, the attainment of that desideratum - easy and accurate shooting.
MODIFIED GUN STOCK.
"Something New From England Which Isn't Popular"
A representative English gun firm [W&C Scott & Son] recently devised a new gun stock which is quite a novelty, but not likely to find favor with many sportsmen. The firm terms the new stock a "modified stock." This stock, while retaining the extreme drop at the butt, has a parallel bend along the face line from the comb to five or six inches back, giving the same alignment at any point between these limits, subject in some cases to slight modifications.
It is generally conceded that shooting is greatly improved when the stock fits easily against the face at the moment of sighting. This cannot always be obtained when the drop of the stock continuously increases from the comb to the extreme butt. As most guns used by American sportsmen have a bend of one and three-fourths inches at comb to three inches or more at butt, there is an increasing slope of about one-fourth-inch between these points. It follows that in shooting a high-flying bird the face presses against the stock nearer the comb than when aiming at a low-flying bird or ground game; therefore, according to the flight, high or low, so the sight is taken at various distances from the comb and practically increasing or diminishing the bend of the gun at each shot.
English and continental sportsmen for years have used stocks parallel from comb to butt, but the extreme drop of guns which has prevailed with American sportsmen, although there is now a tendency to use straight stocks, has interfered with, the attainment of that desideratum - easy and accurate shooting.
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Thanks for the diagrams. . I was not aware and your pictures provided me with good information.
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Exactly. The combs on Remington trap stocks are at the same height. The top of the butt is either flush with the comb or it is dropped a bit. The straight stock works best for those with short necks, while the "monte carlo" stock works best for those with long necks. All else being the same the POA/POI is the same for both.
Going further, the 870/1100/1187 slug gun stock is very close in dimensions to the "monte carlo" trap stock. I installed walnut or synthetic slug gun stocks on all my field and sporting clays 1187's so their POA/POI would be very close to my trap guns. This eliminated one variable that was causing me issues.
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Bottom line, for trap you want a parallel comb. You can get that in either a Monte Carlo or straight stock, whichever works best for you.
I personally prefer a parallel comb for all types of shotgun sports.
I personally prefer a parallel comb for all types of shotgun sports.
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I've only seen one reverse Monte Carlo stock in person. Late freind front Savannah TN had a pretty blond one on old Ljutic he shot heavily in the '90s
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