I received a phone call from one of my relatives. He determined I needed a 16-gauge Winchester model 12 to add to my other model 12s. The downside is the chamber is 2 9/16". Before everyone suggests opening up the chamber to 2 3/4", the answer is a hard no. I started looking for 2 1/2" 16-gauge shells, but they seem to be pretty rare right now. My plan B is to cut down some hulls and hand load a few. To be honest, I may never shoot the thing anyway, but I don't want the old girl to starve for lack of food. Any suggestions for a light squirrel load? I've got a weird assortment of powder and I think a few wads. Thanks for any suggestions
todddietrich
2 9/16" 16 Gauge
You can roll crimp what you need easily.
Ballistic products has a lot of info in their books and toys to buy.
Join 16 ga. society.
Ballistic products has a lot of info in their books and toys to buy.
Join 16 ga. society.
Trimming to 2-1/2" seems to be the way to go if you can't get your hands on 2-1/2" factory loads or hulls.
Couple of suggestions. If you can get Remington loads pre 2024 they are typically 2-9/16 to begin with. Granted I noticed about 1 in 25 being longer.
RST makes 2-1/2 loads though for my taste they blend to a touch expensive, but if you only plan to use a box or 2 every so often probably a better option than reloading setup.
Another outside the box option is buying a box of 10 brass shells. Don’t have to mess with plastic wads or a special reloading setup.
RST makes 2-1/2 loads though for my taste they blend to a touch expensive, but if you only plan to use a box or 2 every so often probably a better option than reloading setup.
Another outside the box option is buying a box of 10 brass shells. Don’t have to mess with plastic wads or a special reloading setup.
There are lots of options. Finding 2 1/2" shells is pretty easy (you won't find them at any local type stores) but you will have to order from RST or other similar European ammo importer. If you are into reloading for yourself....2 3/4" hulls are easily cut to whatever length you desire. I shoot 2 1/2" in my Model 12 and enjoy reloading them.
Reloading gives you more flexibility. To reload 2 1/2" on a Mec single stage press you can get their "Short Kit" that will allow you to crimp the short hull. Another method of dealing with the short hull of any length is to use an over shot card. When you use an over shot card on a short hull in a press set up to crimp 2 3/4" hulls you will be able to crimp the short hull, leaving a big donut hole in the middle. Shot is retained by the over shot card. This is handy if you are loading both
2 3/4" & 2 1/2" hulls on the same press.
Powders like Green Dot are best suited to the 16 ga, Cheddite hulls and any of the Euro type wads for straight wall hulls will do the job with payloads ranging from 3/4 oz to 1 1/16 oz.
Reloading gives you more flexibility. To reload 2 1/2" on a Mec single stage press you can get their "Short Kit" that will allow you to crimp the short hull. Another method of dealing with the short hull of any length is to use an over shot card. When you use an over shot card on a short hull in a press set up to crimp 2 3/4" hulls you will be able to crimp the short hull, leaving a big donut hole in the middle. Shot is retained by the over shot card. This is handy if you are loading both
2 3/4" & 2 1/2" hulls on the same press.
Powders like Green Dot are best suited to the 16 ga, Cheddite hulls and any of the Euro type wads for straight wall hulls will do the job with payloads ranging from 3/4 oz to 1 1/16 oz.
Here are some 2 1/2 inch loads that might work. I use the the Green Dot load in my model 21 as I was looking for a target kind of a load instead of a hotter field load. The 2 1/2 inch hulls make for a real nice stack height. I did back off one bushing on the powder from what I had tested. I think you would like these.
I agree with leaving it alone and as Pheasantmaster said it a LOT more than just reaming a chamber.
The only 16ga. M-12's that I know of that worked right after getting the gun worked on for 2&3/4" loads were guns repaired by Winchester.
Get in to roll crimping and load with Green Dot, Herco or Unique powder.
Look for some older Remington ammo that was made shorter for this purpose.
If you are anywhere near S.E. Iowa, I could probably sell you some.
The only 16ga. M-12's that I know of that worked right after getting the gun worked on for 2&3/4" loads were guns repaired by Winchester.
Get in to roll crimping and load with Green Dot, Herco or Unique powder.
Look for some older Remington ammo that was made shorter for this purpose.
If you are anywhere near S.E. Iowa, I could probably sell you some.
I started digging through my odds and ends. I think I have a good start. I found a 1 oz. recipe that calls for Winchester 540 powder, WAA16(Clay buster) wads which I happen to have. I also found some obsolete R16 wads, SR7625 powder, and 16 ga. overshot cards. I couldn't find any 16 hulls, but I might take the old Sweet 16 out and convert a few loaded Winchester factory shells to hulls or order some primed hulls from Ballistic Products. Somewhere around here is a 16-gauge Lee Hand loader kit, but I've not set eyes on it in many moons. The roll crimpers I've got are 12 ga., but I'll turn down some round stock on the shop lathe and make a 16.
Some m12s had to have ejector work done too. Ejection port, dont forget shell lifter. My 1906 win 1897 2 9/16" will feed 2 3/4" shells on lifter, chamber and eject fired hulls ok. All needed would be chamber depth but why?. A5 needs alteration to frame and parts, Stevens 520 fahgetaboudit. Single barrels maybe, lengthening chamber and also less abrupt forcing cone may benefit. Did use "shorty" black Rem game loads at times, but 1897 win and octagon Champion (discontinued 1920) all use the Gamebore/Eley 2.5" shells. Fiocci seemed a bit hot. Dont need screamers, thats what the 2 3/4" Rem and Ithacas are for( well, not the featherlite 37). Gamebores and Eley are paper wadding, patterned well thru the 1897 and Iver Johnson Champion. Same my Fiocci plastic handloads, but roll crimping plastic hulls was poopoo(at least that lot of hulls).
Fiocchi 16ga factory ammo measure less than 2 3/4". They might just work for you; they did for me both for chamber length and ejection port issues in my Mod 12. I also shoot them in my 16ga 65mm SxS.
V/r
Maxey
V/r
Maxey
I have a few cases of 'short' 16 gauge shells - and I no longer own a 16 gauge gun...
Let me did them out and see exactly what I have.
FYI - I live near Philly...
Let me did them out and see exactly what I have.
FYI - I live near Philly...
Claysammo.com has 16 gauge 2.5” 1oz 7.5’s at 1150 in stock. ARMUSA 16 GA 2.5" VINTAGE CLASSICO (1 OZ.) 1140 FPS (1 CASE OF 250 SHELLS) FROM $145 + FREE SHIPPING tell them Steve sent you.
I ordered in some primed hulls from Ballistic Products to try out my homemade roll crimper. I started to make an elaborate cutting jig for 2 9/16, but I found out a 16 ga. hull fits nicely in 3/4” PVC pipe. I just cut a piece to pipe to length and cut the 3/16” extra flush with a razor. In researching recipes the SR7625 powder looks to be lower pressure for good velocities. I tried loading 7/8 ounces, but my 1 ounce recipe makes a better stack height.
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Have good luck with Gamebore or Eley 1oz loads thru a 1908 M97 or an octagon breech IJ Champion (pre 1920). Fiber wadding, plastic cases. 1165-1220 velocity advertised. Fiocci 2.5s seemed a bit warm, you decide. Older Rem black game loads were shorter hull, did fine in 97. Why anyone really offers 2 3/4" only when the 2.5-2 9/16 hull is perfectly adequate is beyond me. See Rem OBGL. Found 1 box RST loads, they patterned fine too. Doubles of course is up to you, nothing exciting happened when shooting the Champ.
Looks like RST only has the 'spreader' loads currently (10-15-24) available, but keep checking with them, you'll end up some regular loads.
Precision Reloadings roll crimper was said to be better than BPI's. I have BPIs, and an old Lyman, most likely for paper hulls(?). Both worked ok on Fiocci 16 ga 2.5"s, but I never cared for roll crimping plastic hulls beyond one firing. Same Fiocci 2.5" 20 gauge. "Pin" count (more than 1) was supposed to be key. Fold crimp I still use an old Mec 400 with 2 9/16" crimping sleeve, press modified with 2 piece drop tube like 600jr.
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