I'm am wondering about the differences between 700x and High Gun. I can read that one is extruded flake and the other is flattened spherical, but that doesn't mean a lot to me. Would there be any notable difference when loading them in a MEC Automate. Would one burn cleaner than the other? Would there be any problems with the crimp using all the same components? My current load is - Rem. STS hulls, Cheddite 209 primers, 17 grains of 700x, CB 8118 wads, 1 1/8 oz. shot. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
High Gun versus 700X
Joe Trapalino
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I'm am wondering about the differences between 700x and High Gun. I can read that one is extruded flake and the other is flattened spherical, but that doesn't mean a lot to me. Would there be any notable difference when loading them in a MEC Automate. Would one burn cleaner than the other? Would there be any problems with the crimp using all the same components? My current load is - Rem. STS hulls, Cheddite 209 primers, 17 grains of 700x, CB 8118 wads, 1 1/8 oz. shot. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Highgun is Titegroup. Tons of posts about it. Titegroup is pretty dense. Use a 1 ounce wad for a 1 1/8 load. I’ve found it to be very clean burning also.
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as mentioned, many threads about this. Did you try searching this section? High gun is much higher density than 700x but its density is similar to WSH. I have loaded WSH in STS with CB8118 and the stack height and crimp were fine. The wad just compresses less. Just be sure to look up the correct amount of High Gun on Hodgdon reloading. If you were trying to load in straight hulls, I'd have said you can only load High Gun in tapered hulls but since you are using STS, you are OK.
I did plenty of research before posting. The problem isn't too little, it is too much. Very hard to hone in on my specific questions. I figured a new discussion would better help me to get my questions answered. Isn't that why we come here?
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For 1 1/8oz loads, I’ve used 16.3grn 700x, cheddite and the 8118 wad in a Gun Club hull. I later moved on to loading 1oz with 700x to save on shot costs.
When I ran out of the 4 lb jug of 700x, I went on to experiment more with Titegroup. Knowing how much more dense Titegroup was, I moved to an AA HS hull as it has a little less volume than the GC/STS/Nitro/HOA hulls. My 1 1/8 oz load for it was 17.2grn Titegroup, cheddite and the 8118 wad.
I soon after moved on to loading 1oz loads with Titegroup, again just from a cost savings, not performance issues. To note, I did not use the same charge weights for 1 oz loads. Titegroup had dropped very consistent weights in my MEC grabber. I experimented more with the Titegroup 1oz charges and found that the more anemic charges left a lot of unburned powder in my receivers. Getting the load above 9k PSI seemed to resolve that problem.
When I ran out of the 4 lb jug of 700x, I went on to experiment more with Titegroup. Knowing how much more dense Titegroup was, I moved to an AA HS hull as it has a little less volume than the GC/STS/Nitro/HOA hulls. My 1 1/8 oz load for it was 17.2grn Titegroup, cheddite and the 8118 wad.
I soon after moved on to loading 1oz loads with Titegroup, again just from a cost savings, not performance issues. To note, I did not use the same charge weights for 1 oz loads. Titegroup had dropped very consistent weights in my MEC grabber. I experimented more with the Titegroup 1oz charges and found that the more anemic charges left a lot of unburned powder in my receivers. Getting the load above 9k PSI seemed to resolve that problem.
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The difference between an extruded flake and flattened spherical boils down to particle size. HG has much smaller particle size tan 700x. You may find it more static prone and more prone to migration and powder bar dribble.
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I just bought some high gun. I weighed out two boxes on a scale using 18.4 gr -win 209--WAA-12 wad- 1 1/8 - 1255fps to test and wanted consistency for the test. Very dense. Using a grey AA hull with 0 wad pressure perfect shell and crimp. Using a STS hull you need to use a WAA12 SL wad or you get a slightly dished crimp. I'm trying them out tomorrow and will report back. I've still have 15 lbs, of green dot but wanted to see if I can go to Highgun with same results minus the extra $$$$$.
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Using 18.4 with a cheddite and that was in a nitro hull gave me 1300 fps. I couldn’t believe it. I figured I’d be around 1250
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When I'm baking up a new load I try hold myself back from cranking out a whole bunch before I chrono them.
VERY OFTEN they are a lot faster than what the book says they're gonna be.
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That load I posted was off of the updated hogden reload recipes web sight. The sight says18.8 gr-cheddite primer, go figure.. There's an article in the February 2024 shooting times magazine about how to correctly chronograph shotgun shells accurately if anybody is interested. Page 12.
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The High Gun is significantly denser than the 700X you have been using, meaning an equal weight of it will give you a shorter stack height. A too-short stack height likely will give you dished crimps. The advice above to switch to a 1-oz. wad is sound. The 1-oz. wad will have a taller crush section than the 1 1/8 oz. wad. This will bring the stack height up providing support for the crimp.
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Same here I usually load 60 shells, 2 practice rounds a couple on the pattern board and the rest for chrono.
Can not speak to High Gun but 700x is what I use because it burns clean. Had to send my Diana back to Browning because Red Dot had it all jammed up.
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I prefer 700X, but it is not available locally where I live, but High Gun is. High Gun meters well in my Mec Grabber, but the fine grains sneak past the brass washer and cause my bar to bind. Due to the larger flakes, I don't have this issue with 700X. I do believe that High Gun is cleaner than 700X. Since I have switched to High Gun, I have also switched to AA-HS hulls. Both are great powders, but with different loading characteristics. Good luck.
Silverblade
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700-X is my preferred powder again. i started with it 54 years ago. I went to Red Dot when the plant that made 700-x burned. I was a dyed in the wool Red Dot user until Alliant went crazy with their prices. I do use Tite wad when Ican't get 700-X . Never was a fan of compressed powders.
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can you cut and paste the article, or perhaps just summarize?
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Use the most open choke ,cyl.. is best. Use a baffle such as plywood with a 3' hole to protect the screens from ejecta causing erroneous readings. Sky screens 2 ft apart. Gun muzzle 8' in front of the hole in the barrier. Place the start screen no more than 6-8' behind the hole in the wood baffle. Place the start screen about 4-5'' above the line of shot. Shoot 5 rounds at least and make a data sheet. That's it in a nutshell. My grandsons coming over today to set the poi on his gun as per Neil Winston as he's growing fast. I'll ask him to put a picture of the article up with some pictures.
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