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Beretta 682 Gold E or Beretta 694?

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#41 ·
AusAmateur said:
Agreed.

When I was shooting competition pistol, most of the 'smiths preferred to build custom guns on old model 10s, 14s, 19s and 66s for this reason. All of mine were old model S&Ws with machined parts, no MIM.

Modern changes are, as you said, usually to save money or to excite a saturated market. I personally think the ASE and 682 are the pinnacle of "practical" Berettas, although they were offered at different price points.

My mail from a Beretta gunsmith was that Beretta couldn't continue to make the ASE line and sell it at a profit.
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Modern changes are for more precise cuts and shapes.. A CNC machine is not cheap.. When I was shooting IPSC pistol all the top 2011's have cnc'd frames and uppers that are finished by hand.. but the milling is very precise.. Same with bolt actions. CNC has made the cuts so precise that you can get prefit barrels from companies like Proof and Bartlein because the threading is perfect from action to action and barrel to barrel.
btw,
Rich Cole did a video about this topic.. 682 and the 694.. it's worth the watch
 
#43 ·
AusAmateur said:
..
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Obviously they have forcing cones. All shotguns do. but the extended cones and how long they are, special shaping etc. is new. It used to be something you did after market.
As for high speed cameras.. they are collecting the data to see what happens with the shot from different barrels. They use computer tech that did not exist 10 years ago to design and measure the effects of minute changes in design..
Good luck to you.
 
#44 ·
AusAmateur said:
Of course it has forcing cones. It just doesn't have the overhyped extended forcing cones that are all the marketing rage these days.
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yes, I am sorry I didn't say extended. all shotguns have forcing cones the same way a rifle has jump.. but the length of those forcing cones is now added and measured with technology that did not exist 10 years ago..
And,
If extended cones did not improve performance why do so many top competitors have companies like Briley do it to their guns?
BTW,
TSG outdoors went to the lab with high speed cameras and testing equipment. their testing and data disagree with your assertion based on absolutely no data.
 
#46 ·
paparic said:
yes, I am sorry I didn't say extended. all shotguns have forcing cones the same way a rifle has jump.. but the length of those forcing cones is now added and measured with technology that did not exist 10 years ago..
And,
If extended cones did not improve performance why do so many top competitors have companies like Briley do it to their guns?
BTW,
TSG outdoors went to the lab with high speed cameras and testing equipment. their testing and data disagree with your assertion based on absolutely no data.
Click to expand...
That's the first time ever I've heard Newton's Third Law described as "absolutely no data".

People get extended forcing cones because of marketing. Manufacturers include them in order to persuade people to sell their perfectly good guns and buy a "new improved" version.
 
#48 ·
Trap60 said:
Old gun is a 23 year old m682 gold with factory mobil tubes aftermarket .740 bore and lengthened cones & new gun is a m687 sp3 with newer .732 factory bore, factory longer cones and the longer optima tubes. 6 of one /half dozen of another lol! Recoil, patterns etc are the samey same!
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Real world experience!

Exactly.
 
#49 ·
Despite the various minor differences- both guns are carefully weighted & balanced to be twins as well as blind test fitting.
As many others would agree with choke is choke- equal constriction amount in any of the total of 7 tubes- 2 top single barrels, 1 unsingle and 2 o/u barrels - you'd have to shoot thousands of patterns with so called identical loads to remotely begin to prove a real statically value minor difference!
Another common topic- porting! Both top singles are ported, differently as well as o/u barrel for m682. The m687 barrel are untouched. Testing with a grid board in background using same ammo lot on same day proved zero difference in muzzle flip. And duh while both o/u barrels also wear 2 inch extended & ported tubes - the tubes are drastically different in porting style. Zero measurable difference in camera frame or from sharpies attached to barrel to record on the board.
It's 99.99% marketing hype and that comes from a retired gunsmith that made a good bit of money backboring, lengthening forcing cone as well as porting roughly 20 years ago.
A good Smith can produce improvements most of time in an inferior barrel but most are already better than the average shooter can ever realise
 
#51 ·
mayneak said:
694
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Nothing inherently wrong with the 694 but in long run still it’s just a cheaper to make, more profitable cosmetically enhanced modification of the tried and proven basic m680 series which gains some real world recoil reduction purely from its heavier weight. The adjustable rib on the ACS is cool, the Bfast balance/weight system is cool also but obtainable aftermarket on m680. The BFast adj. comb system has a very very bad reputation. For same or less money beretta fans can buy a combo from Etchen that’s yes laser engraved but still prettier with much better wood than a m694 for the same or less dinero
 
#52 ·
AusAmateur said:
That's the first time ever I've heard Newton's Third Law described as "absolutely no data".

People get extended forcing cones because of marketing. Manufacturers include them in order to persuade people to sell their perfectly good guns and buy a "new improved" version.
Click to expand...
Yawn.. this is getting old.. the technology for manufacturing is constantly getting better.
Not sure what Newtons law of motion has to do with trolls on the internet complaining about products they may or may not actually own..
Like I said earlier,
There is actual data collected with sensors, high speed cameras etc that measure the effectiveness of refinements.. you did not supply data or a source of data.. Newton would expect more.
 
#54 ·
paparic said:
all shotguns have forcing cones
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Not true. I shot league with a gentleman that used a Baker .800 big bore. The bore is the same diameter as the chamber. Not possible to have a forcing cone.

paparic said:
the same way a rifle has jump
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Not necessarily accurate either. Yes, Weatherby utilized a certain distance of freebore in most of his Weatherby branded cartridges, but most non-Weatherby cartridges call for only a slight distance between the bullet ogive and the lands of the barrel. If you want to talk actual match competition with a rifle cartridge, the bullet is more often than not, seated about .005 to .007 into the barrel lands. No "jump" possible there either.
 
#56 ·
Lol technology after retiring from positions in aftermarket automotive & medical device machining - tech only advances to make the same parts cheaper for an increase in profit!
It makes this corrupt world of ours spin- profit margins. I’ve test fired multiple m680 series plus quote quite a few m690 series and dt-11s their all good beretta guns but the only real gains are extra weight to actually reduce felt recoil and some fancy adjustable features- some of which are of unfortunately inferior quality
 
#57 ·
paparic said:
Yawn.. this is getting old.. the technology for manufacturing is constantly getting better.
Not sure what Newtons law of motion has to do with trolls on the internet complaining about products they may or may not actually own..
Like I said earlier,
There is actual data collected with sensors, high speed cameras etc that measure the effectiveness of refinements.. you did not supply data or a source of data.. Newton would expect more.
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You were literally asking whether you should buy a 682 or 694 a couple months ago on SGW, and now you're an expert??? :ROFLMAO:
 
#58 ·
Grizz56 said:
Some people just love the tickling of that smoke being blown up their butt!!! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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Yeah I got my kicks at the bank account balance, yes indeed I did. Won’t deny it. 20plus years later and even more testing later it’s all 99.99% BS! You want a pattern choke it between .030 & .040 otherwise sit on the bench talking smack
 
#59 · (Edited)
1100 REMINGTON MAN said:
Cole's put out a good video of the improvements vs the 680 series.
Where did Cole's go wrong ?
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Coles at end of day makes a living by selling guns- to do that you rep the latest and greatest tech the builder provides no matter how realistic or dubious it is. You gotta push it to maintain
sales and income.
Some days I really hate admitting I’m a US citizen simply because of how many of the citizens fall into the stupid marketing hype
 
#60 ·
paparic said:
Yawn.. this is getting old.. the technology for manufacturing is constantly getting better.
Not sure what Newtons law of motion has to do with trolls on the internet complaining about products they may or may not actually own..
Like I said earlier,
There is actual data collected with sensors, high speed cameras etc that measure the effectiveness of refinements.. you did not supply data or a source of data.. Newton would expect more.
Click to expand...
ooh ooh. I've been called a troll by a newbie!! Is there a prize?

I'm done. If you have to resort to feigned boredom and name calling, I think that speaks enough.
 
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