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Choke preference for Helice

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drgondog

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have played with 8s on1st barrel, 7.5 top. I have shot fixed IM/F 0.724/.728 bottom. My scores on average are 22/30 lowand 27 high. Have one 29 but count as an outlyer -

What are the opinions of those that shoot better than the above with respect to shot choices and barrel chokes?
 
#3 ·
drgondog said:
I have played with 8s on1st barrel, 7.5 top. I have shot fixed IM/F 0.724/.728 bottom. My scores on average are 22/30 lowand 27 high. Have one 29 but count as an outlyer -

What are the opinions of those that shoot better than the above with respect to shot choices and barrel chokes?
Click to expand...
WHY... do you think you need such a tight choke for the first barrel? Do you really think that huge, close Helice target is going to escape through a light modified or even an improved cylinder pattern? Fake news.

MAYBE ... if you had to kill a live pigeon should you use an IM or an F but NOT to separate a chunky witness cap from a propeller ... open up!... and hit those missed targets next time for a 30x30
 
#4 ·
I shoot helice every weekend, chips don't count in helice.
From the 26 meter line I shoot IM/IM, you could probably get by with M/IM.
At Selwood in Alabama we "slide" on straight 5's, if you shoot a straight 5, you back up 1 meter.
I shoot IM/IM till I get to the 29 meter line, then I put a LF in top barrel.
Several shoot IM/F all the time.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Sportshot said:
WHY... do you think you need such a tight choke for the first barrel? Do you really think that huge, close Helice target is going to escape through a light modified or even an improved cylinder pattern? Fake news.

MAYBE ... if you had to kill a live pigeon should you use an IM or an F but NOT to separate a chunky witness cap from a propeller ... open up!... and hit those missed targets next time for a 30x30
Click to expand...
Doesn't work for me. I have shot these damn things sine Cyril Adam introduced Z-Z to GC in 90's. The witness cap is a funny 'thang'. IMO most of the separations occure when the containg ring is broken while at high RPM leading to my conclusion that the 30 yard pattern should be denser than Mod, but several hard angle targets from 1 and 5 are probably out 35-40yd before a reasonably fast first shot.

I have also noticed that the 'chunky' witness cap is more reluctant to separate in cold weather. Retainer Ring shrinkage, maybe?

Just because it doesn't work for me, what did you break our 30/30 scores with?

As to box flyers I shot ~ 0.024 most of the time even while shooting M&O. I am still undecided regarding which sport is most difficult to achieve 30/30. I ran a fair amount of 25/25 and a lot of 20/20 but never 30/30 in either sport. BTW I think Columbairre is more difficult to run 30/30 than either, behind a great thrower.
 
#8 ·
When talking chokes, it’s best to use constrictions instead of names. Especially true in the IM area. Example follows:

Krieghoff 12 gauge

00 = C = Cylinder = 0.00 mm (.000")
0 = S = Skeet = 0.13 mm (.005")
1 = IC = Improved Cylinder = 0.25 mm (.010")
1+ = LM = Light Modified = 0.38 mm (.015")
2 = M = Modified = 0.51 mm (.020")
2+ = LIM = Light improved Modified = 0.64 mm (.025")
3 = IM = Improved Modified = 0.76 mm (.030")
4 = F = Full = 0.89 mm (.035")
5 = SF = Super Full = 1.02 mm (.040")

Briley 12 gauge

CYL = Cylinder = 0.00 mm (.000")
SK = Skeet = 0.13 mm (.005")
IC = Improved Cylinder = 0.25 mm (.010")
LM = Light Modified = 0.38 mm (.015")
M = Modified = 0.51 mm (.020")
IM = improved Modified = 0.64 mm (.025")
LF = Light Full = = 0.76 mm (.030")
F = Full = 0.89 mm (.035")
XF = Extra Full = 1.02 mm (.040")

When using the term “IM” to describe a choke, one person thinks .025” and another thinks .030”. Not a lot of difference, but you can never be too precise when communicating in my opinion.
 
#9 ·
I shoot an Imod on the first shot, xfull on the second. I have shot 7 1/2s for several years with good success but have been experimenting as of late with 8s on the first shot. Jury is still deliberating. As for my feelings on comments on why so much choke is needed, my response is that I have seen and have had many a lost bird when they were hit with the center of the pattern. It takes more energy than one would think to get the witness cap to separate from the wings, especially in cold weather. You can tell when you are assembling the targets that some of them snap together tighter than others. I shot in a shoot a couple of months ago when it was really cold and the consensus of everyone there was we had better be shooting 7 1/2s, so I did. By the way, I don’t think I shoot any better scores than you posted, just thought I would chime in.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Jon Arnett said:
When talking chokes, it’s best to use constrictions instead of names. Especially true in the IM area. Example follows:

Krieghoff 12 gauge

00 = C = Cylinder = 0.00 mm (.000")
0 = S = Skeet = 0.13 mm (.005")
1 = IC = Improved Cylinder = 0.25 mm (.010")
1+ = LM = Light Modified = 0.38 mm (.015")
2 = M = Modified = 0.51 mm (.020")
2+ = LIM = Light improved Modified = 0.64 mm (.025")
3 = IM = Improved Modified = 0.76 mm (.030")
4 = F = Full = 0.89 mm (.035")
5 = SF = Super Full = 1.02 mm (.040")

Briley 12 gauge

CYL = Cylinder = 0.00 mm (.000")
SK = Skeet = 0.13 mm (.005")
IC = Improved Cylinder = 0.25 mm (.010")
LM = Light Modified = 0.38 mm (.015")
M = Modified = 0.51 mm (.020")
IM = improved Modified = 0.64 mm (.025")
LF = Light Full = = 0.76 mm (.030")
F = Full = 0.89 mm (.035")
XF = Extra Full = 1.02 mm (.040")

When using the term “IM” to describe a choke, one person thinks .025” and another thinks .030”. Not a lot of difference, but you can never be too precise when communicating in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I understand your point. That said, the barrel CYL bore ID is a factor. The Open ID of the choke tube is a factor (IMO). Also, a Briley Skeet (0.005) constriction at Muzzle is usually expressed from US Standard cylinder bore of (0.729) - at least to my knowledge. So the actual choke at muzzle is 0.724. All of the choke tubes I have from Briley going back 40+ years follow that process. Jess Briley set it that way because he wanted to have standard reamers rather than custom machine each tube to the customer's bore size.

If your barrel is a 18.4, or 18.7 then he actual 'final' constriction from CYL ID of 18.4 to 0.723 results in less actual constriction between CYL bore and Choke at Muzzle of CT than for 18.7..

So I chose to describe each separate condition/dimension and let the reader decide.
 
#13 ·
dog, you should be commended for your excellent shooting. A lot of the guys over at the club don't know squat about chokes so I put up [ an out of date ? ] chart that reads SK-.005, IC- .010, LM- .015, Mod- .020, IM- .025, and Full- .030. For years and years Full was .030 - when did it change to LF , and why ? Couldn't it just went to extra and extra, extra full ? Must have been the screw in choke boys needed to sell more chokes so different names were made up. :rolleyes: I'm getting too old for all this new nomenclature.:mad:






/ ]
 
#15 ·
paul Harm said:
dog, you should be commended for your excellent shooting. A lot of the guys over at the club don't know squat about chokes so I put up [ an out of date ? ] chart that reads SK-.005, IC- .010, LM- .015, Mod- .020, IM- .025, and Full- .030. For years and years Full was .030 - when did it change to LF , and why ? Couldn't it just went to extra and extra, extra full ? Must have been the screw in choke boys needed to sell more chokes so different names were made up. :rolleyes: I'm getting too old for all this new nomenclature.:mad:






/ ]
Click to expand...
I'm waiting for someone to release a 40 choke set, going from cylinder to 40 thou in 1 thou increments.
 
#18 ·
I have been watching this post with interest since it started.
I am going to give some answers based on actual observations of the top AMERICAN shooters in today's modern helice game.
Choke choices have evolved among the best shooters we field here and abroad. The shift in trap equipment to the Spanish manufactured "ELICIO" autoloading voice release traps, and the thicker rim, more robust target wings in @ 2015 made the event harder to score well on compared to the various previous systems.
The retired Kansas farmer who has enjoyed the greatest success of any American shooter at this game went to tighter choke constrictions. Another National championship shooter and perennial USHA National team member tightened his chokes in the first barrel from .025 to .030 and kept his .035 full on top. The Kansan I mentioned changed to a #4 Full on bottom and a #5 ExFull on top in his factory choked K80. I have a call in to him specifically to ask if he has changed.
Shot size? I never thought I would see much variation from 71/2 by any of the top shooters but I have seen that idea "shot down" as well. The Kansan I mention is a sponsored gun and shell guy.. A group of serious competitors had gathered in Houston for a USHA sanctioned "registered" shoot a few years back and of course the gentleman was amongst the contenders. When getting ready to begin our man mentioned that his shell sponsor had sent him his chosen 1 oz. Helice loads, but in number 8 shot size, instead of his normally preferred 71/2's. I offered him any of my chosen AA 71/2's but he replied "what the heck" and went forth to the first ring. I shot very well that day and managed to post a normally winning 29, only to be eclipsed by our friend's perfect 30.
This put a lot of shooters thinking about 8's..... and the discussion goes on.
I continue to shoot 7 1/2's in what few competitions I still enter, but have shot a good number of targets with 8's and had 29x30 scores twice with them My chokes are currently a factory choked set of barrels measuring .029 and .039 respectively.
Chokes and shell choice....... regardless of the game at hand the argument/discussion goes on forever.......
 
#19 ·
My best scores have been shot using 8's.
I have also shot IM in the first barrel all the way back to the 31 meter line, but I would recommend LF/F past the 29 meter line. Most shoot only from the 26 line though.
We now have shoot offs from the 32 meter line, there I use LF/F.
I really think sliding needs to be incorporated into helice, it helps even the field of shooters.
 
#20 ·
Rem Trap 16 yard chokes are .27 so little more than mod and little less than improved mod. I shoot Briley mod for singles and mod/improved mod for doubles. tried skeet and Improved cylinder and mod on doubles and did fine. Was me, not the gun that was missing, I don't get to practice doubles as most of the people in my club like singles. I LOVE trap doubles!
 
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