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FabarmRS12

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello.
I don’t post much. I don’t talk much. I read a lot.
I do have a question about recoil anticipation. I’ve pondered it a lot. I’d like your input.
When my friend’s gun misfires, I see his head fly back and the barrel go up as if the gun fired. I don’t think this is normal.
My coach loads my gun at training sessions. He puts a snap cap in at times. I do not move when the gun goes click.
I guess I’m wondering, if you’re yanking the gun when it doesn’t actually shoot, are you yanking it when it does shoot and it effects your shot?
I believe if you’re yanking, you’re messing up.
Am I right or wrong?
Thanks.
 
#7 ·
Failure to fires, slow pulls/no bird can often times be a blessing in disguise. It reveals all the the bad habits you don't realize you have.

If for example you call for the bird and nothing comes out, the gun, your head, arms etc. should not move.

If it's a slow pull, nothing should move before the bird comes out.

If you have a failure to fire, when the gun goes click, there should be no movement; not barrel flip or jerk.

I keep score more than I shoot so I get to watch a ton of shooters. The most obvious bad habit I see is upon calling for the bird, the shooters gun drop 4" or so. What is happening is the shooter is likely subconsciously looking down at the house in an attempt to get a jump on the bird and the gun follows.

The other classic (and im guilty of it from time to time) is when no bird comes out and the gun still moves. Why are you moving the gun when you don't see a target?

My least favorite and hardest to pick up on is the barrel flip which is likely what your friend is experiencing. When you pull the trigger and nothing happens except a "click" and you jerk the gun as if the shell went off anyway.

The best remedy is to shoot a round every so often (or even half a round) with nothing but a snap cap. This will sort of re-train your brain that there is nothing to fear when pulling the trigger. If I find myself getting a little whippy during the shot, I will try to lock onto a chip for a few seconds after each shot. It's really all about controlling the gun.
 
#8 ·
In that we all shoot shells loaded with roughly the same weight of shot and dialed in to similar speeds (within reason) I don't think it is so much a 'big recoiling shell' as much as it is a function of gun fit. [NOTE - I shoot 7/8 Oz of shot over 16.5 grns of Promo - I am a recoil sissy... so I am wary of this situation]

In Europe when you buy a new gun the first thing they do is pull out a 'try' gun - the stock looks like a Transformer toy - but it is infinitely adjustable and lets them fit the gun to the shooter. Here we just grab a gun off the rack and shoot. I think it is a big mistake in American shotgun sports.

I shoot a DT-10 that has a custom stock (I am left handed). As the stock was being adjusted to me I shot one time and it and it just about took my shoulder off - the solution?? About 1/8" more length on the bottom of the stock at the pad than at the top - an altered angle. Turned the gun into a pussy cat.

I would suggest your buddy have his gun professionally fitted to him.
 
#10 ·
Take a slow motion video of him shooting at the same angle you noticed his yanking up on the gun. When you play it back you will see if he is moving before or after the shot. Either way it creates misses, but it will help him see what he is doing wrong. Also, video his eyes as he is pulling the trigger, again in slow motion. The way he is reacting, it sounds like a classic close your eyes fear of recoil flinch to me. Whenever someone moves back off the gun on the shot they are usually afraid of recoil or even the noise of the gun and they jump back out of the gun while firing. I can almost guarantee he is closing his eyes before he pulls the trigger.
 
#11 ·
The only thing I really took away from using a shotkam was that my barrel doesn't move until I clearly see the target. Even in doubles, I've never shot at a broken target but I can tell you I lean forward when my gun doesn't fire when I think it should.
This past weekend I put several hundred rounds through a TT15 unsingle (unleash the trolls) then grabbed my 725 unsingle for caps. The first round felt like someone punched me, hard. My brain said "WTF" because I didn't think recoil was that bad, it's made me rethink my tolerance to it. Especially cumulative. I've put close to 4K rounds through my 725 unsingle in nothing but a t-shirt and never thought about recoil. Sunday's doubles confirmed just how much recoil my body was absorbing and it's no wonder our brains eventually say "nope, I ain't pulling that trigger again". So you "yank it". You are not wrong.
 
#13 ·
Just an opinion. The recoil anticipation "lunge" is probably part of the "flinch" spectrum, and certainly looks similar to the entertaining large muscle reaction we exhibit in response to the "trigger freeze", but it does not follow a trigger freeze. And it does not occur sporadically or inexplicably, but to some degree with every shot, and is only made obvious with a dud.
Lungers tend to be flinchers, and I suspect some flinches start with recoil anticipation lunging. At least mine did.
 
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#14 ·
WadHopper said:
Sunday's doubles confirmed just how much recoil my body was absorbing and it's no wonder our brains eventually say "nope, I ain't pulling that trigger again". So you "yank it". You are not wrong.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of recoil and my gun always goes bang...........unfortunately not necessarily at precisely the right moment. As an inveterate trigger slapper I'd say there's nothing better than an agricultural yank :giggle:.
 
#16 ·
The Jordan Wall Chart is the bomb, but you can just put a piece of tape, a sticker, or draw a dot on a wall to work on smoothness. Put a snap cap in and swing through the dot, pulling the trigger as the barrel passes over the dot (follow through with the swing). You should be able to do that without looking like Harry Potter trying to cast a spell with his wand. Believe it or not, that’s what it looks like for some people.
 
#17 ·
I've never seen a flinch where the head flew back and the barrel flies up during a misfire. People who anticipate recoil usually push the barrel down when there is a misfire.

The 3rd paragraph of the article SPORTALLURING pasted is the first time I've seen printed what I believe is the most common reason for flinching. It's not recoil, it's a faulty connection between your brain and trigger finger. Your brain is screaming SHOOT while at the same time trying to prevent your finger from pulling the trigger because it knows you will miss if you shoot.
 
#18 ·
FabarmRS12 said:
if you’re yanking the gun when it doesn’t actually shoot, are you yanking it when it does shoot and it effects your shot?
Click to expand...
Nope. The shot is already gone. We ain't that quick.

Two things.

1. What people typically refer as flinch is better described as trigger freeze which can almost always be relieved by using a release trigger. But, that is whole other discussion.

2. What you are probably seeing is really just the normal reaction of certain muscles groups which have been conditioned to react to absorb the recoil of the shot. However, when the gun doesn't go off, those contractions produce the type of movements that see. Because the body has learned that it doesn't need to initiate this reaction until the trigger is pulled and your muscles can't beat the exit of the shot from the barrel, these movements have no effect on where the gun is pointed when the trigger is actually pulled.
 
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