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Older Promatic Trap Blowing Fuse

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#21 ·
For brushes go to an ACE hardware store. Take an exemplar for shape and wire length.
 
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#22 ·
Superglide said:
Doing the routine checks, the battery voltages measured fine (on regulated solar panels), and when monitored at the motor the voltage maintained when charging the spring under load. So I pulled the motor and it spun fine under power and by hand. No bearing roughness or noise. The trap linkages were are good and moved freely. When I pulled the motor, a small amount of water dripped out, but not much. There was no o-ring between the motor and gearbox and one of the mounting ears on the shaft side of the motor was cracked off. It appeared that this was an old issue judging by the crack condition.
Opening the motor, I found this; View attachment 1657811

And here is the commutator/rotor;
View attachment 1657813

Also, this small part of unknown origin fell out and I don't see where it could have come from? View attachment 1657815

So the bottom line is that the motor needs some cleaning and a new set of brushes to start. We do have a spare motor, but the brushes are missing (of course) so if i clean up this motor and install brushes in both, I will have two good motors.

Now more questions, does the gearbox require lubrication and does anyone have a source of small parts, like the brushes, o-rings, and bearings for these traps? I only saw a few major components on the USA site.

Thanks for all your help with this fellows.

Finally, to respond to the comment on MEC traps, we just received 30 of them!
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Promatic sells the brushes, just call and ask. They will come with new holders, i usually toss them and clean up the old ones, they should have the O-ring too, drill a small hole in the motor end cap towards the bottom, no more water problems.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
The trap has been running fine for the last few weeks, but quit again today. I removed the motor and it runs fine. I only had a medium screwdriver, and I turned the gearbox back and forth, but when it hit the point where it was against the arm and spring tension, I could not turn it. I did notice that the arm on this unit does not rotate around nearly as much as the one on the trap mounted next to it when released. Is this a sign that the one way bearing needs replaced, or is this normal?
 
#24 ·
Take the spring off and then you can turn the gearbox all the way around, you will feel a dead spot if there is one. Keep in mind that the arm will stop in a different place (further in) if it is dry fired than if it throws a target. Sounds like that motor is old, may be letting the ghost out.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
The motor has a new rotor, but after additional thought, I wonder if it is getting full current, so I will check out the wiring and connections again. These failures are intermittent, and the trap often operates later without any intervention. We did have heavy rain and high winds a couple of days ago and it is on an elevated platform. We will likely pull the trap on Tuesday and replace it with another one that we have, and do a full diagnostic and overhaul on the problem one.
Thanks for your input.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
True, The connections were checked before and the trap ran without a hitch until yesterday. I was thinking about it last night, and wondered why the fuse didn't blow? If the motor was stopped or even before, why didn't the fuse blow under overload? Only way that I can think of is that there is high current resistance somewhere in the line, (which I would not detect on my DMM). I think the most likely spot is the motor relay. If we have another relay, I will replace it tomorrow. I will also remove the spring and check the gearbox for free and smooth operation.
Thanks
 
#28 ·
Here is a easy way to check, an ohm check usually won't reveal much. Set meter to 12v scale, clip the negative lead to the battery negative, put the positive lead on the negative motor wire, stay behind the machine where you are safe, arm the machine and see if there is any voltage, anymore than .25v is a problem. I like to do the same test with the positive on the ground bolt at the electrical box too.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Reinstalled the motor today and the darn thing worked first try. We did move ahead with the measurements and the voltage measured using the above procedure was ~.043v max for the few cycles that were run. Also rechecked all the connections in the termination box and the battery droop under load ~11.5vdc vs. 12.5vdc float. No condensation in the motor or the termination box. The plan is to run the trap and if it malfunctions again, remove it from the tower and replace it with a spare that we have. Once we have it out of service, I will look into the gearbox and rewire it as well as adjust and lube.
Hard to fix something that is working, but then again if it is working, no need to fix it.
In any case, thanks for your help.
 
#30 ·
flashmax said:
Low voltage on a motor will increase the current draw. Verify battery charge, verify all electrical connections. Lube motor bearings.
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Note : just for info if the voltage runs low ,no matter what voltage current will be higher than normal ,so if you battery is low, current will be higher ,thus the cranking of the coil will cause more draw on the battery and if the battery is low the 40 amp fuse will possibly blow ! The opposite is, if the voltage is high, current will be low ,thus motor may never run or just click ! Good luck !
 
#31 ·
Sprkee said:
Note : just for info if the voltage runs low ,no matter what voltage current will be higher than normal ,so if you battery is low, current will be higher ,thus the cranking of the coil will cause more draw on the battery and if the battery is low the 40 amp fuse will possibly blow ! The opposite is, if the voltage is high, current will be low ,thus motor may never run or just click ! Good luck !
Click to expand...
You are right on with that.
 
#32 ·
Superglide said:
Reinstalled the motor today and the darn thing worked first try. We did move ahead with the measurements and the voltage measured using the above procedure was ~.043v max for the few cycles that were run. Also rechecked all the connections in the termination box and the battery droop under load ~11.5vdc vs. 12.5vdc float. No condensation in the motor or the termination box. The plan is to run the trap and if it malfunctions again, remove it from the tower and replace it with a spare that we have. Once we have it out of service, I will look into the gearbox and rewire it as well as adjust and lube.
Hard to fix something that is working, but then again if it is working, no need to fix it.
In any case, thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t hurt to put a different battery on that machine either.
 
#34 ·
Superglide said:
We have spare new batteries, so I'll try that next or maybe just swap batteries with the other machine on the platform, and see if that solves the problem and if it repeats itself on the other trap.
Click to expand...
That .43v concerns me some too, I would take a good look at the pos and neg wires and terminals, a lot of times I will cut 3-4" off the ends and put new terminals on.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
se2884 said:
That .43v concerns me some too
Click to expand...
It was only 0.043 vdc on my Fluke DMM which surprised us, so we did the test 3-4 times. If it acts up again, I will change out the battery, which btw is on a regulated solar charger now, but not always. My understanding is that the battery is ~3 years old. I am certainly open to a complete rewire if needed, but wire, connectors and crimps all look fine, but may be corroded inside.​
 
#36 ·
Superglide said:

It was only 0.043 vdc on my Fluke DMM which surprised us, so we did the test 3-4 times. If it acts up again, I will change out the battery, which btw is on a regulated solar charger now, but not always. My understanding is that the battery is ~3 years old. I am certainly open to a complete rewire if needed, but wire, connectors and crimps all look fine, but may be corroded inside.​
Click to expand...
Sorry, I thought it was .43v your reading is ok.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Well, the trap gave out again yesterday. So we put a new one in place and wired it in and that solved the immediate problem. Took the motor and spring off and inserting a screwdriver into the gearbox slot, it was stuck in either direction. It broke free turning it in reverse and I could feel a tight spot. Took the unit off and removed the cover. I needed an impact driver on the small screws, so it has been in service many years. Looked OK except for the hardened grease, so I kept turning it to examine the large gear where the tension was felt. There was a 2"-3" section where the gear was worn significantly, not much left remaining on the teeth. I was amazed that it kept running this long considering the spring force. So now we need to buy and install a new gearbox. That leaves us with 2 bad gearboxes. Does anyone offer a rebuild service on these?
 
#38 ·
I have rebuilt the blue ones over the years. The bearings and such, not the brass gear. The helical teeth was more expensive than the entire gearbox from local machinist. Maybe you will be more lucky. It seems like that is what you need so it might not be any help but I made a PDF of the walk through of it and parts in late 2000s. I think the part numbers hold as I rebuilt one for a friend a few months ago.

If you want the PDF, email me at Matthew/@/LWSSC.com without the /
 
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