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Pitch? Fine tuning? How does it change P.O.I. ?

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dklees

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I guess this is a two part question. I still sometimes feel a little sore in the cheek after 6-8 boxes. Not a lot, but I think it can be helped with some pitch. Question is, what is considered subtle pitch and do I want to try changing it down, or adding shims to the toe and pitching it up first? I'm shooting a 67 Broadway Superposed and have an adjustable pad. My thoughts are to try a slight shim/washer at the top screw of the pad like 1/16" or so.

Maybe that's a bad idea? I can't tell how flat the pad is contacting my shoulder when I shoot, but I think it should be as near a zero pitch as I can get it. It seems close now, but I can feel a little sore in the cheek after a weekend and 8-10 rounds.

Also, what happens to my P.O.I. with small changes in pitch? I know I can just go to the board and find out, but perhaps some have prior knowledge? Does P.O.I. change a lot and does P.O.A. seem to change too?

Any help is greatly appreciated before I start changing things.

dk
 
#2 ·
If you want to change pitch I think your idea using a washer between the recoil pad and stock is a good idea because if you do not like the way your gun shoots you can just take the washer out.

In my own personal testing of pitch, I have seen the poi change when adjusting the pitch positive or negative. There will be a lot of shooters who feel that pitch does not affect poi but in my testing it does. What I do is put a washer or washers over the but pad screw and tighten it down.

You mention you feel it in your cheek which I would think may be you do not have enough cast on your stock as that's also a possibility?
My suggestion would be do not make any permanent changes to your gun until you have shot the gun for awhile before you decide to make a permanent adjustment.
Good luck,
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 
#4 ·
The ONLY thing I have found to stop cheek pounding is to have an adjustable comb modified so that the comb slopes DOWNWARD...Most all need the post holes that the comb fits down on drilled at an angle....You will have the comb higher in the back than in the front and you will have to experiment with how high you need it for your poi but it will work..Zero to negative pitch also greatly helps and I don't think it affects poi much
 
#8 ·
Pitch effects how the butt moves on the shoulder when the gun is fired. Zero or positive pitch tends to move the comb down and the muzzle up. Single barrels are more flexible and make do with less pitch than the more rigid O/Us. You cannot take pitch out of the equation, but competition guns are less sensitive to it due in part to the sticky and/or well contoured recoil pads. If the issue is cheek slap, a change in pitch may help, but other adjustments like comb height may have to take place to bring you back on target.
 
#9 ·
dk, pitch is what you change to accommodate your physique and your shooting position. If you lean well forward when shooting, your ideal pitch will be different than if you stand more upright. You can use this to your advantage when testing. Since you cannot feel the pad flat on your shoulder, try leaning forward or back with your stance until you can. Then shoot a couple of shots and see how it feels.

Before you start, mount the gun as you normally would, only slowly. What part of the pad touches first? If the bottom, keep going a little at a time and see if the top of the pad is firmly seated . If it is not, the gun will recoil upwards into your face. Lean a little more forward so both the top and bottom of the pad are in good contact with your shoulder pocket.

If the top of the pad hits first, lean back a little until you get equal engagement top and bottom. You may be able to simply modify your stance a little and won't have to mess with the pad.
 
#10 ·
I bought a beretta 686 onyx pro trap about a month ago.. and it was slapping me so bad i would be bleeding.. i put 3/16" of shim under the bottom end of the recoil pad and the problem is solved.. i used washers to get desired fit.. no more blood or fat lips.. i was about to broom that beretta.. glad i played around with it..
Also.. i have not put it on paper to confirm, but i agree with steve, i really think she is shooting a bit higher.. best of luck and get em all..
 
#11 ·
The fit, or pitch of the pad, can't possibly have an effect on POI. POI can't possibly change after the shot exits the barrels end? That's the point when pitch comes into play, either up or down barrel movement.

When shooters shoot the wrong pitch for their build, they will develop a forehand downward pull with the leading hand to compensate for that blow to their jaw or cheekbone! For unbelievers, load your friends gun for a round if he's getting bruised on the cheek. Let him shoot a few then leave the shell out and let him call for a target and watch what he does? He'll yank that forehand down at a 45 degree angle when he attempts making a shot with an unloaded gun!!

Jim G., I'd say that's the reason you've agreed with Steve's thoughts after changing the pitch and you quit yanking down on the forearm? Seems to shoot higher but it didn't change the POI after all?

HAP
 
#12 ·
Browning Broadway Superposed of your vintage were know to have thick combs. When you mount your gun are your eyes level or do you have to tilt your head to the side to line your eye up with the center of the rib? If so that is an indication that you need more offset. A 1/16" of pitch change is not going to do much and like Hap and West have commented it is not going to change your POI. An adjustable comb is not necessarily the answer if you have to move the comb over far enough to cause a noticeable lip or ledge between the two pieces. I would suggest Rollin Oswald's book The Stock Fitter's Bible and Jeff Meloy's Understanding Shotgun stocks. They are both in my mind very good but need to be studied and studied some more, not just read. Tom
 
#13 ·
My Mach One was bumping me in the cheek until Dennis changed the pitch. He made it longer on top; shorter on the bottom. Can't remember if that's positive or negative pitch. My Kuhner has an AR standard stock which is 6 degrees of pitch. I love it. No bumping at all.

Those are good books
 
#14 ·
Pitch Is very important in shooting some people need zero pitch but most people 95% need some down pitch why you ask because your shoulder is usually not flat some people have pec muscle's that stick out so if you put up your gun the barrel would stick up and then you would have to adjust your body to get it down to 2 ft or to the top of the trap house causing you to have to stand wrong to get it down to where you like to hold causing you to lean to far forward also if it then makes you have trouble moving to the targets I know you'll say I shot it just fine, that's because your used to it but why not make it easier to move to the target, as the gun needs to fit you not you to the gun, as it make no difference on the POI and anyway but what it does do is allow you to get to the low targets better you may still be un comfortable , but you hit them and the same with the high targets. your gun should never kick you in the face unless you lift your head. Period!! trust me all the big dogs aren't getting kicked off there guns
 
#15 ·
Hap, i also agree with you.. while i was dealing with the slapping a started having problems with hard lefts.. just was not getting to them.. finaly realized i was death gripping the forearm.. it caused me to be tight and i wasn't moving smoothly. Sure feels good to have all of that behind me.. it was frustrating to say the very least..
 
#16 ·
All my problems with cheek and face bruising were fixed by a modified comb. Playing with washers and so on didn't sound like fun to me, and at the time I felt it wasn't going to help my problem so I went and got my comb done. Best $250 I have ever spent, besides the $2600 that was spent on the shotgun and case of course. I was rolling my face over the stock in order to get the sight picture I desired and when the gun went pow, my face was absorbing that recoil. Pitch would not of changed what I was experiencing with my gun, so I feel that a best first step is to get a comb that can be adjusted.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
BPron said:
All my problems with cheek and face bruising were fixed by a modified comb. Playing with washers and so on didn't sound like fun to me, and at the time I felt it wasn't going to help my problem so I went and got my comb done. Best $250 I have ever spent, besides the $2600 that was spent on the shotgun and case of course. I was rolling my face over the stock in order to get the sight picture I desired and when the gun went pow, my face was absorbing that recoil. Pitch would not of changed what I was experiencing with my gun, so I feel that a best first step is to get a comb that can be adjusted.
Click to expand...
100 % agree..Had the comb adj too. Best $ I've spent also as I had similar prob. Just trying to fine tune it now.

Not a big deal if I shoot soft reloads now, just a little bit of notice after 6-8 rounds of factory. I can't do much more with my comb. adjustments so my thoughts were getting some minor pitch adj. w shoulder pad contact and the way I'm mounting it. It's about 1.2% downward pitch from a flat surface. Don't know how what it is like from the stance when mounted. I'll find out.
 
#18 ·
dklees said:
100 % agree..Had the comb adj too. Best $ I've spent also as I had similar prob. Just trying to fine tune it now.

Not a big deal if I shoot soft reloads now, just a little bit of notice after 6-8 rounds of factory. I can't do much more with my comb. adjustments so my thoughts were getting some minor pitch adj. w shoulder pad contact and the way I'm mounting it. It's about 1.2% downward pitch from a flat surface. Don't know how what it is like from the stance when mounted. I'll find out.
Click to expand...

Ok but what you can do now is make sure that your comb is parallel with the barrel this is a must cause if it's higher in the front when you shoot it comes back into your cheek, it also make you have the same sight picture where ever you put your face. do you know how to do that? sorry but I have to ask if not use something to lay on the rib and measure it down to the comb front and back and don't measure it with a tape measure. use something with a more finer metric something that measuring in thousands
 
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