How is a FTF handled in trap doubles when it happens between shots? In other words, a gun malfunction after the first shot which prevents a second shot (auto jams, o/u doesn't set the 2nd barrel), or a bad shell on the second shot? If the first target is dead, does it stand as dead? If the first target is lost, does it stand as lost?
How is a FTF handled in trap doubles?
skeet_man
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How is a FTF handled in trap doubles when it happens between shots? In other words, a gun malfunction after the first shot which prevents a second shot (auto jams, o/u doesn't set the 2nd barrel), or a bad shell on the second shot? If the first target is dead, does it stand as dead? If the first target is lost, does it stand as lost?
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I recall the new rule states if you have a ftf on the 2nd shot, after missing the first target, you get to shoot another pair with the first target being a loss, regardless. If you hit the first target and then have a ftf, you get to shoot another pair and that pair is what's scored.
I'm sure I will be corrected if this is not the case.
"A contestant shall be allowed 2 failures to fire, for any reason other
than stated in Paragraph C., 2., above, during each Doubles sub-event
if the Failure to Fire occurs when the contestant attempts to shoot the
first target of a Doubles pair, or when the contestant attempts to shoot
the second target of a Doubles pair after the first target has been fired
at and broken and would have been scored “DEAD”. When the first
target of a Doubles pair is fired at and missed and that target would be
scored “LOST”, and an allowable “Failure to Fire” occurs on the second
target, the shooter may shoot another pair. In such a circumstance the
shooter must shoot at both targets of the repeat pair but the first target
shall be scored “Lost” regardless of the result of the actual shot, the
second target shall be scored as shot. (See exception in VII., E., 11.,
f.) When the first or second allowable Failure to Fire occurs in any
Doubles sub-event, the contestant shall be allowed to call for and fire
at another pair of targets and the result of the shots at the new pair
will be scored in accordance with these Official Rules."
I'm sure I will be corrected if this is not the case.
"A contestant shall be allowed 2 failures to fire, for any reason other
than stated in Paragraph C., 2., above, during each Doubles sub-event
if the Failure to Fire occurs when the contestant attempts to shoot the
first target of a Doubles pair, or when the contestant attempts to shoot
the second target of a Doubles pair after the first target has been fired
at and broken and would have been scored “DEAD”. When the first
target of a Doubles pair is fired at and missed and that target would be
scored “LOST”, and an allowable “Failure to Fire” occurs on the second
target, the shooter may shoot another pair. In such a circumstance the
shooter must shoot at both targets of the repeat pair but the first target
shall be scored “Lost” regardless of the result of the actual shot, the
second target shall be scored as shot. (See exception in VII., E., 11.,
f.) When the first or second allowable Failure to Fire occurs in any
Doubles sub-event, the contestant shall be allowed to call for and fire
at another pair of targets and the result of the shots at the new pair
will be scored in accordance with these Official Rules."
Skeet Man,
The rule concerning failure to fire (FTF) in ATA doubles has been changed for 2012. The new rule states that a FTF on the second target after the first target has been broken means that the shooter must shoot the pair over and nothing is established on the origional pair. A FTF on the second target after the first target is shot at and missed means that the shooter must shoot the pair over, but the first target is to be scored as lost regardless of the outcome on the replacement pair.
Two FTF incidents are allowed per sub event (usually 25 pair the way most clubs shoot doubles today) and any additional failures to fire are scored as lost.
Hope this helps,
Jim
The rule concerning failure to fire (FTF) in ATA doubles has been changed for 2012. The new rule states that a FTF on the second target after the first target has been broken means that the shooter must shoot the pair over and nothing is established on the origional pair. A FTF on the second target after the first target is shot at and missed means that the shooter must shoot the pair over, but the first target is to be scored as lost regardless of the outcome on the replacement pair.
Two FTF incidents are allowed per sub event (usually 25 pair the way most clubs shoot doubles today) and any additional failures to fire are scored as lost.
Hope this helps,
Jim
This came up at our club on our registered shoot this past weekend.
I knew I had read this change before, but according to the latest rule book sent out by the ATA 9/10/2011 edition I can't find it.
Is there a later edition of the rule book than 2/10/2011?
I knew I had read this change before, but according to the latest rule book sent out by the ATA 9/10/2011 edition I can't find it.
Is there a later edition of the rule book than 2/10/2011?
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RWT and All:
Every year the ATA office distributes materials needed by gun clubs for registered shoots including copies of the current rule book. The package is mailed to individuals identified as "gun club contacts". I don't remember the exact timing but as best I recall it is late winter or early spring.
Any club you frequent should have a limited supply of rule books. If their supply has been exhausted, copies are available from the ATA.
sissy
Every year the ATA office distributes materials needed by gun clubs for registered shoots including copies of the current rule book. The package is mailed to individuals identified as "gun club contacts". I don't remember the exact timing but as best I recall it is late winter or early spring.
Any club you frequent should have a limited supply of rule books. If their supply has been exhausted, copies are available from the ATA.
sissy
Shawn,
Thanks for the info about the online rule book, I didn't have access to the internet when the question came up.
I knew that I had read about the change but never found out if it was passed or not.
The printed rule book dated 9/1/2011 does not have the new rule printed in it.
Recoil S,
that is probably when I became aware of the change because I am the contact person, but it was not printed in the latest rule book.
Robert
Thanks for the info about the online rule book, I didn't have access to the internet when the question came up.
I knew that I had read about the change but never found out if it was passed or not.
The printed rule book dated 9/1/2011 does not have the new rule printed in it.
Recoil S,
that is probably when I became aware of the change because I am the contact person, but it was not printed in the latest rule book.
Robert
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This is the same way that Registered Sporting is shot. I think it's a great rule change. Some will complain because it doesn't allow them to have a "malfunction" if they miss the first bird. I'm sure that is the reason for the rule change.
Added note: The local doubles league that I shoot in has been doing this for a couple of years because of chronic FTF's on the second target if the first one was missed. The same league does allow the lead-off shooter to see a pair if he/she so desires.
ss
Added note: The local doubles league that I shoot in has been doing this for a couple of years because of chronic FTF's on the second target if the first one was missed. The same league does allow the lead-off shooter to see a pair if he/she so desires.
ss
One of the rule changes proposed by the skeet rules committee is a change in the way gun/ammo malfunctions are handled in skeet.
The current rule is that in the event of a gun or ammo malfunction on the second target of a pair, if the first target is lost the rule is - 'lost , proof doubles to establish second target.' in the event of a hit first target - "nothing established, proof doubles to establish the pair"
The rules committee is proposing that a hit first target be scored, and the proof doubles is to only establish the second target.
This, of course, opens the door to cheating - which is why the current rule is as it is.
john
The current rule is that in the event of a gun or ammo malfunction on the second target of a pair, if the first target is lost the rule is - 'lost , proof doubles to establish second target.' in the event of a hit first target - "nothing established, proof doubles to establish the pair"
The rules committee is proposing that a hit first target be scored, and the proof doubles is to only establish the second target.
This, of course, opens the door to cheating - which is why the current rule is as it is.
john
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ShortShucker,
The local league may not be affected by the rule change, because by allowing the lead off shooter a view pair at each station is PITA rules and not ATA. But PITA has more like NSCA report pair, if first target is lost, first target is established as loss, reshoot the pair to establish the 2nd target.
The ATA rule this new rule replaced went over board taking care of those who claimed a malfunction when missing the first bird and got the pair over with nothing established. The old rule had if you missed the first bird and had a malfunction the pair was scored loss and no FTF was recorded.
I agree that this new rule is fairer.
Jason
The local league may not be affected by the rule change, because by allowing the lead off shooter a view pair at each station is PITA rules and not ATA. But PITA has more like NSCA report pair, if first target is lost, first target is established as loss, reshoot the pair to establish the 2nd target.
The ATA rule this new rule replaced went over board taking care of those who claimed a malfunction when missing the first bird and got the pair over with nothing established. The old rule had if you missed the first bird and had a malfunction the pair was scored loss and no FTF was recorded.
I agree that this new rule is fairer.
Jason
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