Please explain.
What is the difference between 2 & 3 hole targets?
Kemper
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A trap set to throw a "3 hole" target will oscillate between throwing a straight away at post 1 and post 5.
A trap set to throw a "2 hole" target will oscillate between throwing a straight away from a point about 3 feet inside from post 1 and post 5. So the included angle is less severe than for a 3-hole target.
The "hole" refers to the way old Winchester hand set traps were set up to control the oscillation. There was a plate that had holes drilled in it. You set the limit pin in whichever hole you wanted to limit the amount of oscillation.
A trap set to throw a "2 hole" target will oscillate between throwing a straight away from a point about 3 feet inside from post 1 and post 5. So the included angle is less severe than for a 3-hole target.
The "hole" refers to the way old Winchester hand set traps were set up to control the oscillation. There was a plate that had holes drilled in it. You set the limit pin in whichever hole you wanted to limit the amount of oscillation.
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Just curious here. Do most machines have this capability? I'd love to try it. Hoping I can get my club to just set it that way just for a few rounds and give it a shot.
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Does the Pat trap oscillate continuously like the old Winchester 1524x or does it stop, throw a target, then move, stop and not move again until the next target is thrown?
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"A trap set to throw a "3 hole" target will oscillate between throwing a straight away at post 1 and post 5."
In addition to those parameters when Winchester handsets were primarily used for ATA trapshooting, an allowance was mandated to allow for "hole" wear in the pin plate. When worn, the allowance was approx. 5 degrees outside those straights from 1 and 5 and still considered a legal target! One could expect much tougher angles on traps with worn pin holes in terms of difficulty, 54 degree angles must be shot as they were legal targets! That mandate made for some mighty tough targets!!
Todays rule of 44 degree angles doesn't mention the variance of old when taking about target angle difficulty of prior years, just the straights from 1 and 5 are addressed.
Hap
In addition to those parameters when Winchester handsets were primarily used for ATA trapshooting, an allowance was mandated to allow for "hole" wear in the pin plate. When worn, the allowance was approx. 5 degrees outside those straights from 1 and 5 and still considered a legal target! One could expect much tougher angles on traps with worn pin holes in terms of difficulty, 54 degree angles must be shot as they were legal targets! That mandate made for some mighty tough targets!!
Todays rule of 44 degree angles doesn't mention the variance of old when taking about target angle difficulty of prior years, just the straights from 1 and 5 are addressed.
Hap
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Barry,
No, the Pat Trap doesn't oscillate continuously. It oscillates, then stops and doesn't move again until a target is thrown.
No, the Pat Trap doesn't oscillate continuously. It oscillates, then stops and doesn't move again until a target is thrown.
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That's what I thought happens but I have A buddy that says different.
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On a Pat, I think it depends on how soon after a target is thrown that the next target is called for, but generally, yes, it moves after a target is thrown, then it will stop.
On a Pat, the oscillation is achieved by a hydraulic ram, and a set of solenoid valves that open and close to extend and retract the ram. The "limits" on a Pat are set by the physical location of a couple of magnetic proximity switches (which they refer to as "reed switches") placed on the hydraulic ram. Place the switches further apart, and the field is widened. Pat sells a little aluminum bar you can put between the switches that sets the field width to replicate "2-hole" for you. I suspect they also sell a 3-hole bar. If you place the bar between the switches, then all you have to do is move the switches to center the field.
Its a little more complicated than a trap machine with a rotating plate and "holes" on the plate that set the field width.
On a Winchester (and a number of other brands like Beomat, LaPorte, etc.) there is a rotating plate to which a bar attaches. The other end of the bar is attached to the machine. As the plate rotates, the bar moves the machine (which is pivoted) back and forth. In the mechanical engineering world, we call this a "4-bar linkage."
I don't know the exact dimensions, but the one-hole is closest to the center of rotation of the rotating plate, the two-hole a little further, the three-hole a little further yet, etc. The further away from the center of rotation you place the "pin" for the linkage, the more extreme the angles become.
If I had a photo, it would be easy to see.
On a Pat, the oscillation is achieved by a hydraulic ram, and a set of solenoid valves that open and close to extend and retract the ram. The "limits" on a Pat are set by the physical location of a couple of magnetic proximity switches (which they refer to as "reed switches") placed on the hydraulic ram. Place the switches further apart, and the field is widened. Pat sells a little aluminum bar you can put between the switches that sets the field width to replicate "2-hole" for you. I suspect they also sell a 3-hole bar. If you place the bar between the switches, then all you have to do is move the switches to center the field.
Its a little more complicated than a trap machine with a rotating plate and "holes" on the plate that set the field width.
On a Winchester (and a number of other brands like Beomat, LaPorte, etc.) there is a rotating plate to which a bar attaches. The other end of the bar is attached to the machine. As the plate rotates, the bar moves the machine (which is pivoted) back and forth. In the mechanical engineering world, we call this a "4-bar linkage."
I don't know the exact dimensions, but the one-hole is closest to the center of rotation of the rotating plate, the two-hole a little further, the three-hole a little further yet, etc. The further away from the center of rotation you place the "pin" for the linkage, the more extreme the angles become.
If I had a photo, it would be easy to see.
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What are the target setup rules? 44 degrees either side of centre on lane 3? And how high from how far in front of the trap?
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Aussie Dan, it's 17 degrees either side of centre(center here) on lane 3.
9 1/2 feet high at 10 yards.
9 1/2 feet high at 10 yards.
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And how far till they land? 45 yards?
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50. The ata rule book is on shootata.com.
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The difference in 2 hole and 3 hole is on 3 hole if you are sitting on an end hole and the Sears Cataloge is on the other side of the other end hole you have to reach further than if it were a two hole.
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That's good Champ, never been in a three holer. That must be at a busy camp.
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She might flinch a bit.
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