Someone is smoking crack if they think they can actually sell these for $12,500, about the same price as a factory new Krieghoff, Kolar, or Perazzi combo (and you can get custom wood on any for a little more).

$7500 was at the high end of reasonable, but possible given the new technology, ect. $12500 is beyond ludicrous.

Buy an 1100/391/other autoloader, have an adjustable rib put on, trick the gun out to the max, have a custom stock made and a soft touch/g squared/similar recoil reducer installed, and you'll still be at about 1/5 the cost of a Butler, and similar or lower recoil.

Most reports from people who have shot the butler say it's absolutley a soft shooter points well and has a great trigger, all the things you look for in a great target gun.

One of the toughest parts of manufacturing is holding quality and price to the same standard. Butler was not designed to be a every mans gun, It's aimed at a narrow audience just like a Bowen, Alferman and the other specialty target guns. Some people see the value in a Ferrari others don't its just a car to them.

Only time will tell if there is the market they hoped for.

Surfer

The problem is that its in the same price range (or more expensive) than a new "Bowen, Alferman and the other specialty target guns". No matter how you dress it up, its still an autoloader. It will take a complete paradigm shift for clay target shooters to consider ANY autoloader to be on par with the top break action shotguns. Silver Seitz could come out with an autoloader tomorrow, and they still wouldn't command the same price as a Seitz single barrel or o/u.

Side note- Just checked the price of the Seitz single barrel. MSRP is $100 less than MSRP of the Butler. How many people are going to buy a Butler over a Seitz if they could afford either. I doubt many.

Its preposterous to believe there is a viable market for a 12,500 autoloader. Absurd. Another solution looking for a problem, like Beretta's UGB. And that flop cost a relative fraction of a Butler.

It appears that there's been an ownership change, very much like what occured with Ljutic. That would explain the move.

The Marketplace is made up of wants and needs, there's plenty of products priced beyond what most people consider justifiable for what they offer in return for money spent.

There's a great number of people who think A,B,I,K and P guns are all over priced and unnecessary to do the task at hand, yet they all these brands found willing buyers.

No question Automatics are not as well received as in Sporting Clays where they are a mainstay, but for some trap shooters automatics offer a solution to health issues by way of reduced recoil and that alone puts a gun like the Butler in a unique position. Does this mean Butlers will sell like hot cakes at current pricing, no it means they will have sales to those who see a Butler as a way to fill their wants or needs or both.

Surfer Time will tell where Butler will land in the scheme of trap shooting.

There are far, far more cheaper and proven ways to reduce shotgun recoil than spending 12,500 for an autoloader. There's nothing "unique" about reducing recoil, there are lots of ways to do it. Why didn't the Browing recoiless shotgun make it?

Orange Crate, We can dice this six ways to Sunday, people who have shot a Butler talk about how good it feels how well it points and how soft it shoots and what a great trigger it has. There's nothing unique about a Krieghoff as an example, it's just a dolled up model 32 Remington from the 30's and can be compared to a Browning Citori as far as function, yet they are priced world's apart.

As far as Browning's recoiless is concerned having owned a 30" rendition, I can say from my view it was to heavy in the wrong part of the gun killing its dynamics, however it was a soft shooter, my opinion of why it never caught on which is subjective like everyone's.

Obviously your one of those people who can't see the value in a Butler and would never be their customer, nothing wrong with that, you're probably happy with your Citori or 682 and in stock recoil reducer and that's all you require to meet your needs or wants.

Surfer

I'm out, wish them good luck.

Will the Butler last as long as the Bren Ten ? Trident

The Browning Recoilless was barrel heavy and had a rotten trigger. But, no recoil to speak of. I had the 30" and if it had a decent trigger I would be shooting it today, even with the front heavy barrel. And it cost a lot less then the Butler is forcast to be.

$12,500 bucks could buy me a lot of B-303s with enuff cash left over to shoot more than I possibly could! We'll see how that new idea of an introductory price of $9500.00 goes over too? As good of a semi-auto it happens to be, it's still a semi-auto. I had hopes for this company in the beginning but am having serious doubts after the sell-off and the inflated suggested price. They may sell a couple but this grand idea ain't gonna fly very far very soon!

Hap

Same thing i have been thinking all along HAP but we will have to see how this one plays out as that a lot of money for a hull chucker

We're kind of jumping to conclusions here. Remember the thing about the price increase is just something that was posted here that someone heard from somebody else - maybe accurate, maybe not. As far as the change of ownership, that was just speculation on my part - though I think it probably occurred. If it did, that likely means there's been an unflux of capital, which may have saved the company.

What might occur, and you hope it doesn't,is that the company files a chapter 11 or 7, and the patents and equipment are sold by the trustee in essentially a pre-arranged sale. If that happens, the people who put up the deposits are relegated to unsecured creditors, and probably are out of luck.

So, it's not dead yet. We'll have to wait and see.