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Yips (golf) and flinches (shotgun sports)

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mrskeet410, Apr 28, 2010.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Dad golfed a lot, and shot some. I shoot a lot, and golf from time to time. Dad says golfers get yips just like shotgun shooters get flinches. He says they are the same.

    If that's true, it isn't recoil that causes flinches.

    Waddayathink?
     
  2. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I've golfed for as long as I've shot, 30 + years and in answer to your question they are miles between golf and shooting. I can correct problems with shooting but golf problems never seem to go away. As I've always said remember golf spelled backwards is FLOG
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The golfers, having more social clout, get better service, that is, the Mayo Clinic will look into their problems. That's one difference.

    Neil
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Dart players get "dartitis" which I think is so similar to flinching they must be at least related. A search for "dartitis" will open a whole new world of things for you to worry about.

    Neil
     
  5. rhymeswithorange

    rhymeswithorange Member

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    Archers get it too, see link above

    Dave Eberhart
     
  6. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    This will explain everything you need to know about golf...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnFbCCgTo4
     
  7. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    mrskeet410, Your dad is right. Same problem, different sport. To me, yips feel like driving a car over washboards on a gravel road. The muscles pulsate and I lose control, firing way off target. I think it's triggered by a visual stimulus, an incorrect sight picture. I never have trouble pulling the trigger.
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet410

    "Dad says golfers get yips just like shotgun shooters get flinches. He says they are the same."

    He would be correct in that respect he/you might be mistaken in this respect,

    "If that's true, it isn't recoil that causes flinches."

    This may be just an added reason. In Golf, Baseball, Darts or Archery there is no recoil to deal with. In Trap it is just an additional problem. I agree that recoil is not always the reason for a flinch. In Trap it certainly is and added reason for a flinch. I here it mentioned in Trap a lot I heard it discussed as Target Panic in Archery when I shot that competitively also. Now I here very little about it in Skeet. I may just be missing the talk/discussions but I don't seem to here as much about it as in Trap.

    Why is that by your name you seem to be or have been a Skeet shooter. Am I just missing the discussions or is there less problems with flinching in Skeet??

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Ivanhoe - To me it seems like there is less flinching in skeet. At least there is less talking about flinching. But flinching still exists in skeet, and the truly affected, and infected, have the opportunity to flinch several times on a long, slow incomer. That's painful just to watch.

    Why less? I'm not sure. Maybe recoil is a factor in flinching, and with skeet so many of our targets are shot with guns other than 12 gauge. And even in the 12 gauge events many use 20 gauges or automatics to avoid recoil. But those with the severest forms of this leprosy flinch the worse when shooting the .410. Recoil isn't a factor there, but the psychological factor of trying to be too perfect certainly is.

    It has just been in the last few years that I have started to see release triggers in skeet. And they have all been release-release triggers. I've not seen a release-pull trigger like they once used for flyers.
     
  10. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    I have read that flinching is not recoil related, but a timing issue. The brain is saying that it's time to shoot, but the eyes say that you are not on target. Hence the big flinch and the trigger doesn't get pulled. Not right away anyway. this is the way it seems to work with my occasional ones. I used to flinch a lot more before I got a true trap gun. I haven't a clue what that is all about. Bust 'em all. Bill in MI
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet410 I agree that there is flinching in Skeet I never wanted to give the impression that there wasn't. Judging by what you have said there is a good case for recoil to be a cause of flinching.

    Not the only cause but certainly a viable cause. The mental aspects of the games to shoot perfect or near perfect scores are putting other pressures on shooter that are also causes of the dreaded flinch. I am also curious whether to see if the mental causes of the flinch can be attributed to the times

    Is it the times after all everyone complains that the shoot off run for hours because it seem that everyone need 100 to get into them. I would say that, that would create pressure or fear of missing if you wish. Or yips or target panic or what ever you call it because the fear of missing is what it boils down to.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    There may be less "flinching" in skeet because the shooter knows where the bird will appear.

    I do not flinch with the shotgun due to recoil. Many of my "finches" are caused by not seeing the bird when I expect to see it. I will flinch with a 28 ga shooting trap targets. Flinching does not occur when hunting - I find that strange but I am thankful for it. Shooting a release trigger over dogs seems like a poor idea - at least for the dogs.

    Don Verna
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    There's a simple way to determine that flinching has many causes. Just invest $4 at your local trap range and shoot 25 targets with an empty gun. Guess what, I'll bet you flinch on a few. I've known a few individuals that flinch when dry firing.

    Some of us have a brain that remembers bad things-like shooting an old H&R with High Brass shells and no ear plugs. Others have brains that remember very little. Great trapshooters who continue shooting a pull trigger successfully for many years tend to be the latter!!
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    A couple shots of cheap rye wiskey in the morning will help. HMB
     
  15. Ray Collins

    Ray Collins Active Member

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    The YIPS is primarily a putting problem and it is due to nerves (it is also known as the pucker factor)...

    Ray
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    dverna

    "Many of my "finches" are caused by not seeing the bird when I expect to see it."

    I believe that and would like to ask you would say that not seeing the target when you expect to. Creates a fear that you will miss because you haven't seen the target properly? If so doesn't that fit in with what has been said??

    No one on this thread has said that recoil is the only reason for a flinch. I believe that flinching has as many reasons as the human mind can come up with.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I have seen myself and many others flinch when a gun doesn't discharge while target shooting. I have reached the conclusion this happens because the brain IS expecting recoil, and when it doesn't happen the shooter flinches in response to LACK of expected recoil, or perhaps due an un-completed mental process. So we flinch in response to recoil, and we flinch in response to lack of recoil when recoil is expected. There has to be an understandable pattern there but I don't understand it.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    wireguy If the mind was understandable no one would pay big money to shrinks to get analyzed. There would be no nut houses. There would also be no phycos....LOL

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    In all seriousness, I have learned more about how the mind works as a result of shooting than any other experience by far. When one sees a fast moving crossing target as stationary and one has only to point the gun with moderate accuracy at it, and one KNOWS that target is history, there is something mentally awsome taking place. On the other hand, that same mind causes one to lurch forward two steps while refusing to pull the trigger and nearly fall on one's face.
     
  20. checker

    checker Member

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    In my humble opinion.....wireguy nailed in his 1st post..."happens because the brain IS expecting recoil, and when it doesn't happen the shooter flinches in response to LACK of expected recoil"
    ANOTHER FLINCHING DEAL.....Ever month my club has a 50 target SKEET fun shoot. June will be using a pump shotgun....any gauge. Last week several guys were practicing. A great skeet shooter who usually shoots a .410 O/U; shot a 24 in his 1st round with his .410 O/U.....next round was with his 12 Ga pump.....16 targets broken! He couldn't pull the trigger on several targets at his normal break point.....rode the target and finally got of the shot before it hit ground and he had several noticeably classic flinches, "balked" 2x on low 6.....NEVER FIRED......OUCH 12 GA Recoil anticipated or felt. Acorns!
    This gun won't hardly kick.....

    [​IMG]
     
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