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Yardage to test POI

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jbmi, Jun 16, 2010.

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  1. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I know it's been posted many times but the search button on this site doesn't work that well for me.
    Anyway, what's the proper yardage to set your target to find your POI off the bench.
     
  2. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    Generally, 13 yds.==Steve.
     
  3. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  4. JDSENIOR

    JDSENIOR Member

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    13 yds. WITH a full choke.
     
  5. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    This will get you on paper, I do that first then go to 35 yards for effective pattern results.

    To get the full effect of the pattern it must be shot at the yardage it is going to be used at.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  6. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    jbmi, it really doesn't matter that much. Anything between 13 and 20 yards will do just fine, as long as all you are trying to do is measure your POI for future reference. If you mess with your settings, you can set up at that same distance and restore your POI to the "original settings.

    If you are going to extrapolate to clay target distance, then you are better off shooting for POI at half the distance you care about. For example, I take singles targets at an average of 30 yards from the post. To see what my POI is at 30 yards, I shoot for POI at 15 and simply double the results. That way you don't have to compensate for gun/rib/barrel configuration, no matter how whacky.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    zzt- gravity?

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    zzt,

    You said, <i>"I take singles targets at an average of 30 yards from the post."</i>

    How do you know?
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    timb99- Be careful what you ask. zzt knows how to work with numbers. He can take the point of the target arc segment where the target breaks, the height of the target when it breaks and calculate the distance from point B the target has traveled. He can do this with complicated formulas that few understand and because we don't understand the calculations, we will never challenge them. I could do the calculations if the target flew in a straight line instead of an arc.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Don't just use a full to use a full. Use the choke you are going to use in the event you are checking POI for. I have seen different full chokes shoot 2 to 3 inches higher at 13 yds.

    Don
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Don, just full chokes or any chokes?

    Neil
     
  12. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Neil I was checking my K-80, had the #4 choke in and shot it 4 times, thought we had the point of impact. Friend said I thought you used a titanium choke for handicap, I put the titanium #4 in and it shot 2 to 3" higher at 13 yds than the regular #4. I now have a quick way to change the POI, I just change chokes. My point is check what you are going to use not just because it's a full, IM or M.

    Don
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    timb99, you could certainly figure it out as Pat describes, but I took an easier approach. I noticed that when I am surprised by a screaming right 3-hole target on Post 5 I fire the gun when the barrel is parallel to the side of the trap house. Same for the opposite scenario from Post 1. Usually, I'm faster than that. Curious, I opened my CAD plot of an ATA trap field, drew the vector and simply measured it. It was just shy of 30 yards from Post to target.

    Previously, for another calculation, I staked out a trap field with yardage posts. I had a friend stand 2 fields away, 30 yards out from Post 3 and watch where the targets broke. Very few made it past 30 yards. Most were broken between 25 and 30 yards, with a couple closer. So the observed data and the calculated data agree.

    I also know that when strong winds are messing with the targets, as they were at Elysburg yesterday, I wait to see what they are going to do before firing, so they are farther away. That's why I say an average of 30 yards. I take well behaved targets between 25 and 30 yards, and wind blown targets between 30 and 35 yards (estimated).
     
  14. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I've never measured singles target distances shot at but we have from 27 yards. We used the same technique as ZZT but with two observers on each side of the trap to mark the distance the clays broke. This is far more accurate than guesswork from behind. Hard angles to either side makes the shooter think they are farther than they really are also. I won't post any distances we observed but will say most shooters take clays farther away than they assume.

    Hap
     
  15. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Geez Hap, I was thinking just the opposite. I had always read that the ATA average shooter breaks singles targets at 34 yards. I was quite surprised to find I was breaking them 5 to 10 yards closer. Since most of the good ATA shooters at my club shoot faster than I do (some a lot faster) I figured the 34 yard figure was a figment of someone's imagination. We have two women shooters who let it get out that far, but that's about it.
     
  16. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    timb99.... Listen to Pat about zzt. Steve is a real mathematician, and knows how to explain his theories, as well as what's behind them. I once asked Steve about some POI information about my DB-81 and this is his reply to me. (I hope you don't mind me posting this, Steve)

    "Dan, I'm getting ready to travel abroad for a couple weeks. So I'll answer your questions in general now, and give you specific data when you send me your dimensions. Your rib is higher than a low rib top single. I guess about 1.25" between LOS (line of sight) and bore centerline. With a 3" high POI @ 13 yards, and the load and choke I referenced in my posts, you will print 9.4" high at 40 yards. I'd just round it off to 9" @ 40 yards. In fact, I'd just take your POI @ 13 and multiply by 3, just as you do now, and say my gun shoots x high at 40 yards. Your gun shoots 80/20. There are 30" in the diameter of a "standard" pattern. 15 of those inches are above POA, and 15 below. If your POI is 15" high at 40 yards, all of the 30" pattern is above POA, so the gun is said to shoot 100% high. For lower POIs, every 3" is 10%. So 3" high at 40 is 60/40, 6" high is 70/30, 9" high is 80/20, 12" high is 90/10 and 15" high is 100/0. These nominal percentages have nothing to do with the number or placement of the pellets. They are meant to convey information about how much of a stylized 30" pattern is above POA. The reason for the confusion is many don't know that is what is meant. They count pellets. That's why a person at my club, who shoots the same POI as you, claims his gun shoots 100% high, because all or most of the pellets are above POA at 13 yards. That's silly, and why I like dimensions. If you tell anyone your pattern center strikes 9" high at 40 yards, they immediately know what you mean. Plus, you can directly convert to POI at any other yardage using very simple math."

    Now, personally, that's the way I like to have things explained to me. Very clear and easily understood, by a man that knows what he's talking about and can prove it with facts. We all could use more of this on T/S.com. Everyone here seems to have an answer for everything, yet very few can support their answers with facts....... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dan

    "Everyone here seems to have an answer for everything, yet very few can support their answers with facts......."

    Just out of curiosity would in this case the difference between 13 and 15 yards seem to be splitting hairs instead of proving any difference?

    Just a question not an argument!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have estimated target breaking distance of shooters by an approximation that involves judgment. I have watched shooters break targets by peeking out of the door of an adjacent trap. I know the shooters are 16 yards from the front of the trap house. I compare the distance the birds have traveled from the house to the distance the shooters are from the house. From this crude measuring method, it seems to me that 30 yards is a typical distance that most birds are broken.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Bob..... I was referring to answers on this site, "in general", not this specific post. Yes, I guess you could consider it splitting hairs if you choose to do so. I'm not arguing theory, just application. I just liked the way zzt explained his remarks. Very clear, concise, complete, and totally understandable to my somewhat feeble brain....LOL..... Dan
     
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