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Yardage Reduction question?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Old Cowboy, Nov 17, 2010.

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  1. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    If a shooter receives a yardage reduction based on 1000 target review, and then neither returns (refused) it nor uses it (as in.......doesn't register any handicap targets at the new or old yardage), is there some time limit beyond which the ATA will assume the reduction was accepted by the shooter?
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Actually if you don't respond to the reduction, you have accepted it. You must inform them if you wish to refuse it.
     
  3. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Yes, I'm aware of that grntitan. Question is.........how long does the shooter have to respond if he decides to refuse it?
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    . . . but what really happens is that though the acceptance is assumed, if you post your next few scores from your old yardage, it will now be assumed you refused it.

    All this is the most reasonable way to proceed. Think of a Minnesota snowbird going to Florida in January and not getting his mail very often. If the ATA didn't do it this way there could be major problems which are not the shooter's fault.

    Neil
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    According to Neil, you have until you decide to shoot caps again. I did not know that. See, i did learn something new today.

    Matt
     
  6. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, as soon as the reduction is indicated it's logged in and is assumed to be your new yardage.

    If you refuse the reduction or shoot at your old yardage, then the reduction is "backed out" of the system.

    Go to the Shooter Information Center and look at your detail (print copy) information and you should see this activity (assuming you've gotten a reduction.)
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I got a reduction and sent an email to the ATA office saying that I will accept the reduction but I would have to shoot at my old yardage until the PITA also granted me the reduction. The ATA office wrote back and said OK the review counter would be reset to zero as of the date of my reduction but only targets shot at my reduced yardage would count toward the next reduction. What actually happened was that my ATA shooter info said that I refused the reduction because I shot targets from my old yardage in spite of the email correspondence. So for a period of time I had a valid Review ATA card in my possession and I did not earn any yardage. Would any targets shot at that reduced yardage been disqualified merely because the ATA shooter info said that I refused the reduction ?? I finally got a PITA reduction and another ATA reduction to the same yardage as the first reduction after registering another 1000 targets from my old yardage. The ATA rules demand that you shoot from your longest yardage while the PITA allows you to shoot from 1 yard closer than your ATA yardage. Almost all of my PITA targets were shot at ATA Shoots and cross-registered with the PITA.
     
  8. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    John,

    It looks like the answer to your question is one month according to Paragraph 11 in the "1000 TARGET REVIEW SYSTEM SUMMARY" (pg. 67 of the Rule Book) which states:

    "11. Upon receipt of a “1000 target review reduction” the shooter has
    one month to take that reduction. Before the Central Handicap Committee deems that “void”
    a.) Special Circumstances:
    1. Shooter is obviously shooting out of state
    2. Shooter has not shot any targets since the review
    3. If shooter has shot more than 500 targets from old yardage
    the reduction is void."




    (My thanks to a good friend of mine who has had a lot of experience with this topic and pointed this paragraph out to me.)
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    To V10, thanks for posting the rule from p67 of the 2011 Rule Book which was updated on November 10, 2010. I also note the new letter of agreement with ATA and PITA cross-registering of targets.
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    V10 accurately posted the rule but it may not have fully addressed the question by Old Cowboy. Let me post the original question a bit differently. Suppose a shooter gets a reduction from the 23 to the 22 and does not shoot any handicap targets for three years. Then, three years later, can he refuse the reduction (see Special Circumstances #2)? The answer is yes but this action will result in some confusion at the ATA office. A quick call or e-mail to Kathy would be in order.

    Many shooters refuse reductions by simply ignoring them. This also places a burden on the ATA office. When classifying at larger shoots, the handicap yardage is shown on the computer screen. The shooter is always asked if the yardage on the screen is correct (at least I hope always he is asked that question). The difference between what is on the screen and what the shooter believes is correct can quickly be figured out. It is usually earned yardage or a refused reduction. If it is a refused reduction, I print out a second copy of the shooters classification that shows the refused reduction, have the shooter initial the second copy and send it in to Kathy K. We all need to work together to keep the ATA records accurate.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Pat wrote, " I print out a second copy of the shooters classification that shows the refused reduction"

    Is this shooter's classification that can be accessed by a classifier at a major shoot evidently without an ATA password the same as the detail record on the ATA shooter information website ??
     
  12. Skeeix

    Skeeix TS Member

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    I was told that when becoming a senior vet a shooter can request a 2 yard reduction from the 27 to the 25. Is there any truth to this? I have been a senior vet for 7 years, and just now heard of this rule, or did I get bum dope?



    Clyde
     
  13. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Clyde the actual rule is:

    8. No shooter with a “Y” code in their special codes will be reduced below the 24.0 yard line unless they are a Veteran or Senior Veteran. This is a permanent code automatically placed in a shooters records upon reaching the 27.0 yard line. “Y” coded shooters may request a special review through their State Delegate or a member of the Central Handicap Committee.

    The 1000 target review is the normal way to get a reduction however anyone can request a Special Review to get a reduction or increase in yardage.
     
  14. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Mike, a more apropos rule would be VI, G, 2a(2), "Special Review":

    "2. SPECIAL REVIEW

    a. “Special Review” is an evaluation by the Central Handicap Committee generated by a high-purified average on a 1000 Target Review or initiated by a shooter through his/her State Delegate or a member of the Central Handicap Committee.The results of a Special Review shall be agreed upon by the Central Handicap Committee and the shooter’s State Delegate. If a disagreement in yardage assignment exists between the State Delegate and the Central Handicap Committee, the matter may be directed to the Executive Committee. A Special Review may be used:

    (1) To determine possible yardage increases for shooters showing high-purified handicap averages on a 1000 target review.

    (2) To determine possible yardage reduction for a shooter because of advancing age or physical disability. A shooter through his/her State Delegate may initiate this review."
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    miketmx- It is possible to obtain all shooters records periodically on a disk and incorporate these data into a classification program.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    George Cook's 3S program allows periodic updates of shooter records, downloaded from his website above. The ATA records available today are current through November 3, 2010.
     
  17. bas

    bas Member

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    This isn't an answer to the originial question, but it also very easy to refuse your reduction online via the ATA website.
     
  18. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is very easy to refuse your ATA reduction I don't understand the protocol to accept your ATA reduction when you must wait for your matching PITA reduction to arrive before you can use your new ATA card. It is a Catch 22 scenario. You get your new Review ATA card in the mail and you photo copy it along with a PITA reduction application on the basis of your ATA reduction. While you are waiting for your new PITA card to arrive you shoot some more ATA Handicap targets at your old yardage and therefore you make your ATA Reduction void. You don't get any official notification from the ATA that you inadvertently voided your ATA Reduction by shooting from your old yardage. Theoretically if you get your new PITA card in the mail and shoot ATA targets from your reduced yardage the targets should be disqualified because ....
     
  19. bas

    bas Member

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    I didn't know the question was about ATA/PITA reductions. I would have to read the PITA Rulebook for the protocol of which you speak.
     
  20. Skeeix

    Skeeix TS Member

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    I am sorry that my question caused any confusion in regard to the original post. At nearly 80 years old i don't mind shooting from the 27 as it is a shorter walk from the gun rack. Again, sorry.

    Clyde
     
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