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XT/Trap patterns left of POI

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mercedesman1981, Jul 19, 2007.

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  1. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    I have been POI testing my XT Trap and have found the pattern of the Under Barrel to be about 1.5" to the left at about 45'. The vertical of both barrels is the same, with the over barrel centered on the paper. I called Browning and they said their spec was 2" left or right so according to them, my gun is in spec.

    Should I be concerned about this? If so, can it be corrected with choke tubes or should I send it to a competent gunsmith? If a gunsmith, can anyone recommend someone in the Seattle area?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  2. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Try some different shells. Some shells will shoot to a different POA than others because of the effect of recoil.
     
  3. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Try moving the comb. to the right.
     
  4. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    A 4 way adjustable comb will allow you to set POI wherever you want it. They are not that expensive.
     
  5. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Thanks for the input,

    1) I am using a rest.
    2) I've tried different ammo. 3-different brands of factory loads and my reloads.
    3) I have used the IM choke as well as the F.
    4) The distance is 45 feet.
    5) If I move the comb, the top barrel will move off center,
    the way it is set up now, the beads form a fig.8 and the
    top barrel hits center, about 2" above the +, the bottom
    barrel hits 2" above and about 1.5" left.
    6) Using the top barrel, both choke tubes hit 2" high but centered.

    I will contact Briley and see if this can be corrected via a choke tube, but from the questions so far, this sounds like an issue that needs correcting.

    Mike
     
  6. skinitback777

    skinitback777 TS Member

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    This is a easy fix, Buy a K-80 and sell the Browning!
     
  7. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Call browning

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  8. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Mike, you are getting close, but you have to do things one step at a time.

    First, find out which of you choke tubes shoot to the same POI from the same barrel. Then put them in the other barrel and see what happens.

    Suppose you tried six tubes in the top barrel and three of them shot to the same POI. Mark those three and try them in the under barrel. If they shoot to the same POI as in the top barrel you have three good tubes. Discard the rest.

    If the three good tubes shoot to the same POI in your under barrel, but that POI is different than your top barrel, you have a barrel convergence problem or a barrel threading problem. Either way it's a $$$ problem if it's severe.

    You preliminarily say you U barrel is 1.5" off at around 13 yards. That's 6" at 40. If that holds up, it would be more than enough to make me do something about it. Your only other alternative is to use the top barrel for singles and caps, and let the more open choke used for the first shot of doubles partially compensate for the left shooting under barrel.
     
  9. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I thought my XT had some POA/POI issues. I then asked one of the better long yardage riffle shooters to help me out. After their laughing and poking fun at me for wanting to bench test "birdshot", they helped out. A good heavy bench and the gun vise they use when zero their scopes. My XT with beads fig8 was hitting the + a smidge high and center both barrels. This was done at 15yards. I then had fun adjusting comb to get to shoot higher.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    MM, I think Mac, the last poster, has made an important point. You have to be sure before you get to worry.

    By "sure" I mean the result you posted has to be based on many, many shots and over at least a couple of test sessions. With my 4x6 foot paper I can draw nine crosses tic-tac-toe style and get nine shots on a single piece of paper. If I'm just idly testing something - maybe I have an old gun I put away no now remember that it has the kind of vertical POI I like this week - I'll just fill the paper with 9 shots and if they all look as expected I'll jot it down and probably squirrel the gun away again 'til I don't know when.

    But if it's a gun I actually intend to shoot, and I'm getting anything but straight down the line- half an inch one side or the other almost all the time, then it's nothing for to shoot up a box or more to get a fuller picture of what's going on. Often I'll ask a friend to take a few shots to see if the result is the same.

    If it seems to be on one side, I recheck it the next time I get a chance. If it stays offset, I keep it for a while if there is something interesting about it, for example a big-name tuner's stamp, but then it goes down the road. Briley made some offset chokes to make an old Perazzi shoot where I asked, but I always think it's going to unscrew when I don't want it to, so it pretty much stays in the safe: a confidence problem with me, not a mechanical problem with the gun.

    If, in the end and with retesting, your gun continues to shoot that far off, don't think of yourself as singled out for bad luck; there are many, many guns with the very best names which shoot far worse than that, and are right this day keeping many shooters who laid out big bucks from ever getting good at shooting and those people have been cheated, no two ways about it.

    If it shoots, confirmed, off that much you have to fix it or sell it.

    Neil
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Seems funny you'd only have that problem with the under barrel if it's a shooters mistake.

    Most guys never pattern a gun, so sell that sucker and buy one that shoots straight with both barrels. Hap
     
  12. crew

    crew TS Member

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    You asked about someone in seattle. You might ask Bill at stan Baker sports, down on Lake city way. I have an XT but mine shoots OK. But I bought an expensive O/U combo that didn't and after a few years I couldn't deal with it anymore,I had Bill take the Barrels apart he did a super job on it. I wouldn't spend that much on an XT but he has ways of bending threads etc. I was just at the state shoot and was supprised at hearing how many people have O/U's that shoot different points of impact no wonder so many don't shoot double's very well. Wayne
     
  13. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Neil, the riffle guys and myself ran 50 rounds through the XT 25 each barrel Full choke over IM under, they have stayed there until today I treid out a briely IM spectrum in the under. Worked out well.
     
  14. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Is it ethical to sell a gun that you know is mis-aligned?
     
  15. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    no, but apprarently it is common practice. Seems they are traded in, releasing all responsabilty.
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    1 1/2" off at 45', that's 4 1/2 " left of center at 45 yards the range at which long ydge hncp targets are taken. At that range you'r 20 inch "hot core" of you'r pattern will extend 14 1/2" to the >left< of point of aim and only 5 1/2" to the >right< of point of aim.

    And----Browning finds that "in spec" for a "Trap" gun???

    John C. Saubak
     
  17. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Just returned from vacation, thank you for the replies. I had a great cruise to Alaska and recommend it to anyone thinking about it.

    The POI is different than the POA for the under barrel by 1.5" left at 45 feet. (devil's advocate) I have shot several paper targets using different ammo, all print at the same area. I'm really familiar with trigger control and "just letting the gun go off" and I also used a rest to obtain a very stable sight picture - Thank you Neil for making sure I am on the right track here. I can't afford to spend money where I don't need to. (I have a Sako in 30.06 and can shoot one hole groups with it at 100yds and I am also a bullseye pistol shooter where trigger control rules).

    So if I want to shoot doubles, I'll have to get this fixed. I spoke with Briley, they said they can make some chokes to correct the problem and I will have to send the barrels in. I will also stop by Stan Baker Shooting Sports in Seattle to see what they say. I am also going by Kesselring's where I bought it to see what they have to say about it too.

    Thanks for you input ZZT, I have been wondering the last week if I should be concerned about getting this corrected or not. Since I want to compete, this is an issue I need to deal with.

    Needless to say, I am not too happy about it. I expected more from Browning, but as I have read here, even the high-end guns have problems like this.

    Mike
     
  18. pull!

    pull! TS Member

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    one of our club members had a "Special Trap", the model just before the XT that he had not shot very well. We took it to the pattern board and found that it shot 6" to the left, both barrels. We tried different shells, had other people shoot it, and finally decided that it was a piece of @#$#@

    we took it to a major dealer in our area and explained what we had found, and asked him what to do. He offered to trade a similar gun for the left shooter and $100. As we left, we noticed him putting the POS on his used gun rack.
     
  19. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    After giving this more thought, perhaps canting the gun while I shoulder it is a problem. I will investigate that possibility tonight with use of a level. That may mean the gun actually shoots low but at least I will be closer to figuring out the problem - and the eventual solution.

    Thanks Neil and ZZT for keeping me thinking. I'll post back with the results.

    Mike
     
  20. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I reread this

    1.5 inches on a 30 inch pattern at 15 yards? just the slightest variance on how you hold it could do that- some rifle shooters couldnt do much better

    and how are you measuring the center of the pattern?

    even if this was accurate- how big of a deal is it? different loads have more of a variance on POI than this

    again you have a pattern out there-- I would think you can still hit the target

    If browning says 2 inches was the spec- than that is probably what the industry standard is and yours is better than the industry standard
     
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