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World All Around

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Phil Kiner, May 16, 2008.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Here are my thoughts I have had an email telling me there is no bias in the format. Any thoughts???

    http://www.trapandfield.com/philkinerblog.htm
     
  2. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    To repeat what I have said a number of times since this event started:

    It is heavily skewed in favor of the sporting clays shooters because the winning score among the best Master class shooters in a 100 bird sporting clays event is often 10 targets higher then the second place score; while in 16 yard trap or all-gauge skeet that is the difference between the winner and a class D shooter having a bad day.

    Pure target count is not a fair way to score this event.
     
  3. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Agree with your comment about long yardage being more representative of trapshooting skills. I also agree that shooting skeet with the 12 gauge is hardly a contest.
     
  4. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    True, the trap events should be 100 birds, 16's, 27 yard handicap, and doubles, but all the sporting events that are normally 100 bird events would also have to be changed. I doubt the final outcome would change,in fact it may favor teh sporters even more. Helice, Super sporting, and flyers are not common events in the states, and more "sporting" oriented. There are more shooting disciplines that are sporting oriented, and thats why it's called what it is. George and the boys had to practice for trap events, and the trappers have to practice the sporting events. Flyers are a whole different ballgame. Mein proved that.
     
  5. concordefamily

    concordefamily Member

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    The "World All Around" represents so much of what is great about Shot Gunning Sports. It was great to watch and like demonstrated here great to talk about also. If you ask 100 shooters on TS.com how this event should have had the targets structured you would get 125+ answers. I too would have liked to of seen skeet shot with either the .410 or 28. Make them shoot Skeet Doubles with a small gun too. I think they did a great job creating this shoot and trying to make it balanced between all the disciplines. As Phil pointed out "Almost one-third (31.4%) of the targets were sporting clays in one form or another".Considering Scott is known for Sporting Clays, I would have that it would have been much higher. Overall, it was great event considering its only its 2nd year.
     
  6. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Trap and skeet are precision games whereas the others are more reactive shooting. As precision games, the numerical target distance between low average and great shooters is very small. By example, on average a C traphooter with a 92 average is only going to lose to Jimmy Heller by 5-7 targets at 16. However, raising that 92 average to 98 is a real long distance in skill.

    A C sporting clays shooter is going to lose to a Master Class shooter by 20+ targets. So, in a total target count contest, the Master Class SC guy is going to bank a lot of targets over a trap or skeet guy. So yes, trap and skeet shooters are at a mathmatical disadvantage along with a transferable skill set disadvantage in that the reactive game shooter has more reactive games to shoot.

    Born in Cherokee.
     
  7. Ken Brandt

    Ken Brandt Active Member

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    I fail to see where this format is so skewed in the favor of the sporting shooter. There are 250 trap oriented targets, 250 skeet oriented targets and 300 sporting oriented targets. If all sporting disciplines are the same then all trap or skeet disciplines are the same.

    That being said I do like DB Bills idea of 100 27 yard handicap and 100 410 gauge skeet. These are the events that decide most major shoots and are the toughest of their disciplines.

    As far as scoring this by pure target count that is the only way to do it. This is not a HANDICAP event. It is also not designed for the ordinary shooter. It is designed to find the best all-around shotgunner in the world. PERIOD..... If you want to compete, train and put up your money like Mr. Heller did. He obviously did not feel the need to be handicaped or he would not have shot.

    I agree with Mr. Kiner that Scott did an incredible job in setting up this event and should be applauded for his efforts. To run the shoot and still be able to compete at that level is amazing.

    respectfully

    Ken Brandt
     
  8. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I think the idea of .410 for skeet is unworkable. Like it or not, only skeet shooters use the .410 much. So the participants simply don't have .410s that they are comfortable with to shoot. Right? Jake
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Jake,

    Wrong. HMB
     
  10. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Sporting Clays is as I have stated numerous times, a game for those that cannot compete in trapshooting.

    Curt
     
  11. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    greberetcj, most sporters have tried trap and found it boring. Also there are the Ma and Pa courses that are a piece of cake, and then theres real sporting clays, where an 85 by a Master Class shooter is a good score. Most shoot it for the challenge, which is the opposite of your opinion. Ever shoot a real course, or Super Sporting. I shoot both ATA and NSCA, and when "real" courses are shot, NSCA is much tougher. Too many variations. They would have a trapshooter shaking his head in misbelief.
     
  12. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    George Digweed of England proves once again that he is the best of those that showed up to compete in the World All Around Competition in Texas...

    Trap and Skeet are the easiest parts of this competition as the scores show...

    George is truly a gifted all around shotgunner...

    Regards
     
  13. concordefamily

    concordefamily Member

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    "Sporting Clays is as I have stated numerous times, a game for those that cannot compete in trapshooting - Curt" TROLL

    I was waiting for this to thread to degrade into a "Trappies" vs. "Sporties"
     
  14. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    I have a hard time believing anyone uses the excuse of not shooting a world all around because of flyers. I highly doubt anyone would go along with eliminating this event hoping to pick up two more shooters. What if a couple of guys decide they don't like one of the other events? Does it mean they too should be eliminated. Flyers are a part of our sport shooting heritage and if they don't like it they can stay home. Flyers should be a part of any all around shoot in my opinion.
     
  15. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: Flyers

    Can hurt if your in need of a sponsor.
     
  16. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    I'm not sold that the top trap shooters would not be able to compete or beat the sporting clay guys at sporting or in this world all around. I think the top trap shooters don't shoot sporting because there is little money in it perhaps?

    I very much enjoy shooting sporting, it is fun and a challenge! I recently went to a charity sporting shoot where there were no individual high gun trophies, it was a team event. We gathered a team of trapshooters and competed in the event. Our team of four consisted of myself, a father son combination (son is 9 years old) and ATA all-american Stu Welton. We got second in the team event against some of the area top sporties and AA Stu had the high overall score against the sporties.

    This world all-around----- I would be very interested to see happen with all the top All Americans in ATA shooting in it. I think the sporties sell the trappers short.

    Lyle
     
  17. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Perhaps some are stretched for the money and some are scared of embarrassment?
    I'd say it's probably the later.
     
  18. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Hey concord man...the only way this thread degraded is when you insist on name calling and/or labeling people that have a differing opinion on sporting clays.

    I stand by my statement. It's only my opinion and based on what events I've witnessed. I did not disparage anyone that shoots sporting clays. I could care less if people shoot SC or skeet, but don't try to impress upon the burdened masses that SC'rs are superior shooters when there's no factual basis.

    I can also state that in my opinion....Trapshooter's with less than a 97% average are not "competitive".


    Curt
     
  19. concordefamily

    concordefamily Member

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    Curt, YOU started the trolling/pot-stirring with the "Sporting Clays is as I have stated numerous times, a game for those that cannot compete in trapshooting". Then you move into sensationalizing/lying with "but don't try to impress upon the burdened masses that SC'rs are superior shooters when there's no factual basis". Never said that, never implied that. Look in the mirror, you're the one name calling saying SC is a game for those that cannot compete in trapshooting.
     
  20. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I would also like to see Harlan and Bonillas entered.
     
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