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World All-Around Shotgun Championship 2009

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by crusha, Oct 14, 2009.

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  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Why doesn't Digweed go to the Grand and clean up?


    Hm...must be chicken.
     
  2. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    buzzy,

    It's because they hold the Grand in Sparta instead of Vandalia!

    ss
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    i knew that
     
  4. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    The rumor is too many conflicting schedules amongst the really great shooters combined with most shooters knowing Digweed would most likely win a 3rd Title.

    Personally I would be surprised if there were to even be a 3rd World All Around....

    George Digweed has proven himself to be the best all around shotgunner in the world today...a lot of very close seconds right behind him though...
     
  5. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Didn't we have this worthless debate last year and brought to us by that great shooter Sportshot who proceeded to trash the ATA All Americans?????

    Don
     
  6. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    Excuse me....there's no debate going on here, just a few comments about when there might be another World All Around competition scheduled.

    As far as the ATA and Trapshooting goes, it is a portion of the event and usually a few very good ATA shooters participate, ie Jimmy Heller, others...

    Unfortunately for them (the ATA guys) they tend to be specialist's and don't do all that well in the other events.

    regards
     
  7. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    I think the big names are Digweed, Robertson, Kruger, McGuire, and a ton of new younger guys......

    Scheduling really is a tough issue for a lot of the shooters...

    Scotty Robertson and ElmFork really were responsible for pulling it all together and making it all happen, now with Scotty out of it (the organizing end of it anyway) its a whole new ballgame.

    Personally I think Digweed is the man on all levels....
     
  8. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    Digweed is a name that is mentioned in all forms of shotgun shooting. I have never seen him shoot. Is there anyone on here that has ever seen him shoot in person? If you look at his lists of accomplishments....it seems pretty awesome!

    Matt Woodson
     
  9. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    re: Is there anyone on here that has ever seen him shoot in person?

    I attended a sporting clays shoot at the Addieville club in Rhode Island that he participated. He was down a target or two on Saturday, but ended up as HOA on Sunday. If I remember correctly he also won the 100 target (4 parcours) FITASC.

    That was the shoot where he put on a demonstration, shooting 5-stand from the hip and also showed some long range shooting skills. He was in the parking lot field adjacent to the 5-stand, kept moving back ten yards at a time. I think he started missing at 110 yards, give or take.

    I got to talk to him one on one for about ten minutes. A regular guy who loves to shoot.
     
  10. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I guess the shooters physique is pretty much universal. Since that's the case, I'm a lock with a little more practice:)

    ss
     
  11. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    One question for those in the know. Are the shooters, that participate in this event, required to use the same gun throughout? Or do they have specific guns for certain events?

    ss
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    We have a contender here in Tucson that's climbing in the ranks too, Gebben Miles. Very good shot and a nice young fella too. Hap
     
  13. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I think the scoring system killed the event. Big George is certainly a great shooter, but shouldn't Leo Harrison, Phil Kiner, Harlan Campbell, or Dave Shaeffer at least have a chance? They don't, because even though Leo and Dave are capable of running 900-1000 straight in singles, they will only pick up a couple birds at the most on the rest of the field in a 100 bird event. Handicap and doubles-not much better.

    George and Scott, are two great sporting clays shooters. In sporting clays, the winner in a 100 bird event will often beat the 2,3 and 4 best shooters by 4 to 10 birds. A great shooter who doesn't specialize in sporting clays will be lucky to be within 20 targets.

    The answer is to award points based on the position in the field -like 100 for first, 99 for second, etc. That is called normalized scoring, and it would give great shooters in each discipline a chance.

    They choose not to do this.
     
  14. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Eddie: Believe that the trapshooters I have mentioned are great shots in any discipline - or at least they could be in short order. Likewise for the great skeet shooters like Wayne Mayes and Todd Bender. Jimmy Heller, a great trapshooter very quickly became a top notch sporting clays shooter, and practiced skeet and international skeet, to be competitive in this event.

    When you are looking at the best all-around shooter, that should mean the best combination trap, skeet, helice, and sporting clays shooter; and each discipline should count equally - not be skewed in favor of sporting clays.

    Then we might see the best shooters in the world entered in this event. Right now we don't even have an event.
     
  15. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    Not in our lifetimes?

    "It is better to believe than to disbelieve, in doing so you bring everything into the realm of possibility."
    Albert Einstein


    Lyle
     
  16. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    Short shucker, to answer your earlier question about guns...Geo Digweed shot a Perazzi 2000S for everything...

    Scotty Robertson, 2nd place last year, shot a Beretta 391 for everything...
     
  17. deadapair17

    deadapair17 TS Member

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    Dick, the very basic idea of sporting clays games (sporting, FITASC, five stand) is about all-around targets by design. There are targets that are trap and skeet included in the format every day, every shoot. This shoot is about all-around shotgun shooting, not trap targets going out in front of you where someone is able to hit hundreds in a row, or skeet targets in the same spot all of the time where someone is able to hits hundreds in a row. These scores reflect the difficulty of the games.

    I know a couple of champion trapshooters that after a couple years practice and competing became very good sporting clays shooters. I also know a few champion trapshooters that tried very hard and finally gave up as being "above average" but not great.

    This shoot is about all-around shooting, I would rather is isn't cluttered with specific disipline oriented events.

    Have fun shooting whatever game you like.
     
  18. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    Kaye Ohye participated last year or the year before.
     
  19. chuckles

    chuckles Member

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    Kay Ohye never competed in the World All Around...

    You can look it up on the ElmFork website if you like...

    Although I'm certain he would do well in the Trap portions...

    Many, many great shooters that would do well but at $5000.00 entry fee plus Air Fare, plus lodging, plus dining, plus drinking, plus wagers, plus ammunition, plus misc unexpected, plus missing your own scheduled events...you got to be talking $8 to $10K....with no guarantee of getting anything back, so it narrows the field considerably.....

    I think maybe a $10K or $15K entry fee would seperate the Wheat from the Chafe in a hurry and you would still draw maybe 15 to 20 of the World's best....
     
  20. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    This is a copy of my July 2008 T/F article

    July 2008—THE Secret

    "The World All-Around: a concept worth tweaking"

    Scott Robertson, Beretta exhibition shooter and president of the Elm Fork Shotgun Sports facility in Dallas, Texas, recently hosted the second All-Around World Shotgun Championship at his club, and “King George” Digweed once again won—to nobody’s surprise, although Scott gave him a tough run for the money, losing by three after leading going into the super 25-target finale.
    While we were discussing the format post-tournament, Scott mentioned that his prime motivation is to get some television coverage of the shooting sports and perhaps get a “pro” class started in sporting clays (his area of expertise). When something is on TV, it will attract more participants and will become more acceptable in the mainstream’s thinking. He is convinced this format will have a chance for some TV coverage over time. TV coverage was an issue this year because of the 50 flyers in the format, and he may have to take them out of the mix next year if TV is to be part of the formula.
    His goal is to do something that will give more incentive for a true pro class in his and the other shotgun games. There is no pro class without outside sponsors, and without TV there are no outside sponsors. The problem with TV is that ALL the parent organizations think they get no benefit from it, so therefore they have no reason to push for TV and a pro class. This is short-sighted. Although they don’t get a direct benefit from TV, all shotgun organizations would gain from new members joining as a result of the increased national/international exposure on the tube.
    This very well could lead to some long-term growth in all the target-shooting organizations and also make the “regular” shooters feel less taken advantage of by those who have become proficient. It is obvious by looking at the trapshooting purse/option payouts this year that the number of shooters playing the money is way down and part of the reason (besides tight money) is the domination of the proficient 27-yard shooters combined with the large number of short yardage shooters that are not even close to competitive.
    If Scott wants this format to attract shooters from all venues, then the percentage of sporting clays needs to be adjusted. I am not sure what exactly to do to make it even, but when you are looking at putting $5,000 of your own hard-earned money up for entry fees and then add airfare, motels, meals, and the expense of having to “tool up” gun-wise to be competitive when shooting all the events, one needs more than virtually one chance of getting his/her money back to consider entering—“one chance” referring to each shooter’s “specialty event” from his/her primary discipline.
    This year’s format was 100 English Sporting, 75 FITASC, 100 5 stand, 100 bunker trap, 100 International skeet, 50 flyers, 50 helice, 150 skeet (75 any gauge and 75 doubles), 150 trap (50 16s, 50 handicap, 50 doubles) and a 25-target “Super Final” which was simply trap, skeet and sporting on a trap/skeet overlay.
    Right now sporting is favored simply because of the target mix. It is from the 27 that trapshooters have their best chance of gaining targets over a competitor from another venue. At the present, of the 150 trap targets, only 50 are from the 27—meaning the trapshooter has only 50 out of the 900 where he has a decided edge (trap from the 16 and doubles are the easiest for other specialists to compete in). Similarly, the skeet specialist has his/her best edge at .410, and there were no .410 targets in the format. Skeet doubles is not that great an edge for the “skeeter” over the other clay sports’ shooters, either.
    If the format is going to continue with the same number of targets then the 150 trap targets need to be from the 27. The skeet targets should be changed to 150 .410. If the feeling is the need for doubles then raise both to 200 targets and have 100 doubles from each discipline and then 100 27 and .410. This still will not close the gap but will give the trap and skeet shooter some edge in their respective disipline.

    The differential between a top sporting shooter and a non-specialist is significantly greater than the difference between a trap or skeet shooter and their “easy game” and a sporting shooter.
    Longer, tougher targets always favor the better shooters, and this is the target-setting theory that was applied to all the sporting targets this year. That further adds to the sporting advantage. Additionally, the trap pads at the Dallas Gun club are not regulation. They are below grade making the trap targets shoot differently than normal trap targets. Scott also needs to get someone that knows how to set a a regulation trap target. The trap targets for this should be the same as the sporting clays ie at the long end of regulation meaning 10 foot high 52 yard 3 hole.
    All this is not to take anything away from the great sporting shooters, and there is a significant probability that Digweed would still win in a format that was less weighted toward sporting. It would be fun to see what would happen if Bender and Mayes were competing alongside the likes of Harlan, Ray and Leo. If and when the top from each game are enticed to compete, then you will start to see who the “best of the best” truly are.


    For some suggestions on retaining more of the “rank and file” in the ATA, see my June 16 blog on the T&F website http://trapandfield.com/philkinerblog.htm. And check this space next month for a “pro”file of one of the all-time greats (and so-called “pros”) of trapshooting: Mr. Dan Orlich. See you at the Grand.

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    Those who have questions about shooting technique or equipment for Phil Kiner, please direct them as follows:
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