1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Women on Submarines-oy vey!

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by 635 G, Feb 24, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,225
    After spending many years in the U.S. submarine service, I can't imagine what life aboard a sub with women on board would be like. Submarine life was about comraderie & mutual dependence. I honestly hate to see one more tradition bite the dust. The last really great boys' club is gone. Lets see how the girls do when ventilation is shut down & you have to wear EAB's for hours during drills. How will the girls do when they have to edure the rigors of getting qualified ? Time will tell.

    Phil Berkowitz ICC(SS) USNR-ret.
     
  2. geneleroy

    geneleroy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    201
    There are many places in the military service where women can and do serve admirably and preform their duties as good as or better than a male, but I agree, on a submarine should not be one of them!
     
  3. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,689
    Phil...

    I'm sure they'll do just fine.

    I'm no women's lib apologist - I spent the last few years of my USAF career flying gunships, and we had gals that did just fine. And we had gals that couldn't find the damn airplane - just like we had guys that couldn't find it.

    But I agree with you...subs, well....I'm not sure that's a good idea. I hear that girls get knocked up on the surface ships fairly regularly (I guess it must be like being a teenager - you can always find SOMEPLACE). I don't know how that will work out on a sub.
     
  4. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,461
    The biggest issues beyond the Boys Club thing are dedicated female berthing/head facilities.


    They've decided to give it a go though with the assignment of very senior female O's and Enlisted to keep everyone straight.


    I remember complaining to my male buddies back when we were 6 or 7 years old how girls always seemed to mess things up. I also remember being happy to have my sisters around when I was bored, stuck in the house with nothing to do.


    I guess some things never change.


    BTW, My wife Aline is a retired Navy Master Chief. She may have a different viewpoint...



    Guy Babin


    CTMC(SW) Ret.
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,939
    I can only hope that they, the women folk, serve on "fast attacks" and not "missle" boats. There are places to hide on a missle boat, but you can't hardly get out of each others way on a fast attack!

    Anybody remember the movie "Operation Petticoat"? Man I still get a kick out of that one everytime I sit down to watch it.

    ss
     
  6. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,225
    Senior officers & enlisted on submarines are still non-quals. There is a big or may be I should have said there was a big difference between the rest of the fleet & the submarine force. Srface officers & or surface chiefs will be like round pegs trying to fit into square holes. It doesn't fit. Under water rank & rate is normally or I would say used to be in the s---can. No saluting, no inspections, do your job for each other. If you couldn't hack it you were s---canned to the surface fleet.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  7. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,474
    Now the homos won't be the only ones having sex. The Navy's not just for the Village People anymore. It will be very comfortable in those small bunks.
     
  8. KRK32

    KRK32 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    TROY OHIO
    Better keep them out of the torpedo room. Kirk
     
  9. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,225
    Love to see them greasing torpedoe tubes, an=dding water & taking readings during an equalizer batter charge. It wold be great if they were corpsmen,lots of shor--m inspections.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  10. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I see your point.


    [​IMG]
     
  11. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,477
    I think that's the mens urinal.
     
  12. capvan

    capvan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,032
    OK, what I don't understand is the "why" to this, other than the woman's lib thing. IF women could hear better, see better, or have some other physical advantage, it would make sense. But....it just doesn't. I'm sure that "adjustments" will be made to the qualification requirements so they make it, it just doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe they are planning on no one hacking it and all the trainees will "self-select" to not go thru with it.

    Bruce
     
  13. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,419
    SS, I remember that movie, it was very good too. Do you remmeber a newer one called Down Periscope??? That was pretty funny as well. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  14. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,450
    I have never thought that women and men should be serving together on missions that involve long-term assignments in a contained living space (close quarters). It's a recipe for disaster. Especially in today's military enviroment where discipline is not the same as it used to be. JMHO.
     
  15. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    930
    Gary, you overlook the utterly obvious. Recurvy pretty well sums it up to a T.
     
  16. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,461
    Women and men have been serving together in close quarters at sea in the Navy since the 80's. Yes there are issues that occur, but they are handled according to the UCMJ and Navy Regulations. Make no mistake discipline is alive and well within the military. To imply that the professionals serving today are operating in a watered-down disciplinary environment disparages the integrity and honor of our current military leadership.


    Men have issues too--believe me. I spent much more time dealing with males who had discipline, performance, and personal issues than women. I lost proportionally much more productivity from men with sports related limited duty issues than from women who became pregnant. The military needs people, good people, smart people. Omitting qualified females cuts the gene pool roughly in half.



    There were many who believed blacks shouldn't/couldn't serve--what a fallacy that proved to be! In my view, anyone who's qualified mentally and physically and equal to the established standards MUST be afforded the opportunity to serve. We have female astronauts who live in the international space station for months at a time who deport themselves with excellence. This is an environment much more confining, demanding, and volatile then any submersible in my view.



    I will not disparage the pride and sense of eliteness many in the subsurface community feel. In fact I can relate. Many of my brothers and sisters who serve in the cryptologic community within subsurface, surface, airborne, and special ops arenas feel we're a cut smarter (and better looking--wink wink) than the rank and file. This feeling of superiority is cultivated in many sub-cultures within the military. It is a good thing. This eliteness should not come from the exclusion of a demographic, but come from the pride of mutual sacrifice, competence and shared love of a profession.



    To decide, without basis that women cannot serve on a submarine with men is ridiculous. They will be trained, many will qualify and those that do will succeed. They too will feel a sense of pride and eliteness as they cross the brow following a patrol wearing silver or gold Dolphins pined smartly to their chest.


    Guy Babin
     
  17. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,687
    Maybe they want to look for seeman..........

    GS
     
  18. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,225
    As I have previously stated, the Submarine Force as compared to rest of the navy is like comparing apples & oranges. I honestly don't think I would have lasted 26 years in the Navy & the reserve, unless I was in the Submarine force.
    Dolphins are earned, unlike other geedunk badges that seem to be popping up every where in the new navy. Everyone in the boat navy is a damage control person.Unless you can depend on your shipmate you can't make it. Honestly women can do the job, but its not a job--its a lifestyle, its tradition. Once you take away tradition, you might as well toss the dolphins into the s---can.
    Qualification will be made easier, it will have to. My longest patrol was 86 days-submerged. We got extended to aid in the search for Scorpion. --we were out of food items, family plans went into the s---can, it was a bitch. But we were looking for fellow submariners--rest their souls.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  19. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,474
    I don't think the women have any business on the same sub or the same ship. I wouldn't mind an all male military. I would even like to see all male and all female schools. Both would do better with far fewer problems. I have prefer an all male work environment. The fewer women around at work the smoother everything runs. I know that I am almost alone in this and have adjusted to the modern world with all it's problems. I don't control the world, I just live here. I don't think it is a coincidence that as women gain power in our society our family structure has deteriorated and our prisons have filled. I also think there is a connection between political correctness and female influence. The push for gay marriage and homosexuality is an offshoot of the blurring of male/female roles. The growth in govnernment programs to take the place of the father in the home. Almost all spending on poverty goes to single mothers. You can't change something as fundamental as the role of men and women without unraveling everything else in society. That is why I say that America can't be fixed. Our problems are systemic and built into our laws. As America becomes more feminine and more insecure we turn to the government to solve our problems which in turn causes more problems. But, like I said, I just live here.
     
  20. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,362
    Location:
    Prairie State
    I would think smaller framed personnel would be more efficient on an enclosed space vessel...

    My only question is, what are the physical requirements aboard a submarine, that might occur that may make a female an inadequate submariner, and since ladies represent only a small portion of the "manpower" does that represent a threat to the security of the ship?!

    regards all,

    Jay
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.