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wolf primers,are they any good?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by plinker61, Apr 20, 2008.

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  1. plinker61

    plinker61 TS Member

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    got a chance to try wolf primers,$80/5000,but before i buy them thought id ask if they are any good,been using cheddite,they are $104/5000,thanks in advance,mark
     
  2. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    wish someonr would stock those here, I have shot thousands of rounds of wolf ammo 22 40 45 7.62 never a miss fire. The primers cant be all that bad.
     
  3. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    Where are you finding them for $80????

    Jeff
     
  4. plinker61

    plinker61 TS Member

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    schanz supply in michigan 1-269-692-2987,ask for angie,we buy our targets from them&they are a large supply house.nice to deal with,not shure how many they can ship with the haz-mat fee but it may be worth it to ask,mark
     
  5. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    Schanz!! That's great news. I am already set up with Schanz as a dealer. Did not know they had them. I was getting them from Williams out of Quincy Il but by the time you pay Haz Mat and shipping.... Well, you know the rest. I go by Schanz on my way to Howard Township.

    Jeff
     
  6. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Who publishes loading data for Wolf primers?

    Morgan
     
  7. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Capt. No published data yet? I emailed hodgdon and was told they load simular to winchesters? why they do not put this data on their web site?????
     
  8. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    "I emailed hodgdon and was told they load simular to winchesters? why they do not put this data on their web site?????"

    I went 'round and 'round about the same issue with Alliant about Rio primers until I finally got one of Alliant's "knowledgeable ones" to concede that they HAD tested Rio primers with their standard load for the latest revision of their data guide but they did not pursue the testing and did not publish the data because they found the primers to be too inconsistent in performance to support data they would have to hang their reputations on.

    It's a matter of liability, I suppose. They will tell you that, most of the time, the primers "generally" perform "similar" to Winchesters. I don't know how they arrive at that conclusion without running a battery of tests. But they will stop short of including them in published data and they won't recommend them as direct replacements for Winchesters because, if they actually did test some of them, they found out things that made it less-than-advisable for them to publish data for those particular primers.

    When I started testing Rio primers on my own, I got advice from Alliant that said exactly the same thing; "Load them like Winchesters but go 1/2 grain lighter on powder.". I did that and immediately started producing loads that were generating peak pressures in the mid- to high 13000 PSI realm. After I had hard data that showed me that Rio primers were NOT similar to Winchesters most of the time I again contacted Alliant. This time I got a change of direction on the advice. Now they were more like Federal primers and it was "likely" that they would generate even more pressure than Federals did.

    Frankly, I won't accept anyone's word anymore that one primer is "similar" to another. If the powder companies don't have published data for them they either didn't test them or they discovered things about them that they didn't like. Either do your own tests or use mainstream primers that HAVE been thoroughly tested.

    Morgan
     
  9. gamehog2

    gamehog2 TS Member

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    I have loaded 600 rounds in the last 2 days and have shot 300 of them already. They seem to seat easier than the Win 209 in my Mec 9000G. Shot the first 100 blind ( mixed half a box of shells with Win 209 and half with Wolf ) could tell no difference what-so-ever in the way the shells preformed. I'm sold!!!!!! For the price difference I will be using Wolf from now on.

    Break em all and God Bless,
    Darrel
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Capt,

    I'm with you on primers and data. I have stopped believing everything that gets repeated about component substitutions. Primers, Powder, and other components can have a significant effect on pressures. I'd highly recommend sending a sample of your own loads out for testing. It can certainly be an eye opener where component substitutions are concerned. I don't know how these primers will affect any given load, except by having them tested. If my load is comfortably below the charge weight for the highest pressure load for similar components, then I don't feel so bad. If I am at the higher end of the spectrum, I will do some testing or use known components. It's not worth the risk to life and limb, or even the risk of damaging a valuable shotgun in the process of saving a couple of hundred bucks over a few years time.

    I have a real issue with people spreading bad information and recommending component substitutions without having the data to support it. Some of these people should know better and if they work for a component manufacturer or supplier, they have an obligation to provide reliable data and sound advice, rather than tell someone to just go ahead and do something that has a good amount of risk to it. Swapping RIO primers in some loads could have a disastrous effect on a guns life and even cause a catastrophic failure. If these primers are prone to developing higher pressures, then it would be a bad idea to "just use the Winchester data". Just because some idiot loaded and fired a couple of flats of shells without harming anything, does not mean that they are developing safe pressures. I always love it when someone says "They shot great and Felt fine" and uses that for the basis of recommending that someone else follow the same bad advice.

    There are three things that can happen to pressures as a result of substituting any component. The pressure can Increase, decrease, or stay the same. Which one will it be? How would you know without some testing being done? If there is no data available, then it would be a good idea to have some done for yourself. Spend the savings on one sleeve and do the pressure testing. It could save you a lot of grief in the long run. I'd do the testing BEFORE buying a ton of them. I'd especially want to check how they work at cold temperatures with my components as well.

    The real damage might not be evident until a few thousand shells have been fired through a gun. It can show up as undue wear or as a catastrophic failure eventually.

    Can anyone point us to ANY reliable data for these primers. Can anyone actually tell us where they are manufactured and by whom? If not, I'd strongly recommend having some pressure and velocity testing done before loading and firing too many of these primers.
     
  11. sixten38

    sixten38 Member

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    I fired off an email to Wolf requesting reload recipe info on the shotshell primers and got the following reply-"Unfortunately we do not have this information to provide you with. Sincerely, WOLF Ammunition". Quack- where and how do you get a shell tested for pressure etc?
     
  12. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Kevin at Downrange Manufacturing in Hastings, Nebraska, offers this service on industry-standard equipment.

    Call him at 402-463-3415

    Morgan
     
  13. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    Regarding Wolf primers...

    "Can anyone actually tell us where they are manufactured and by whom?"

    As I understand it, this ordinance is manufactured in any of a number of plants that formerly did military production for the Soviets. They are brokered by Wolf and sold worldwide.

    Regarding Rio primers...

    I found that I simply can't use them with my chosen powder in 1 1/8 loads; I can't seem to drop the powder charge far enough to make me comfortable. But they DO make a very fine 1 oz load that produces safe pressures and good velocity.

    Morgan
     
  14. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    First of all, there is real good advice here in that you should never assume changing components is OK. What I have found in my testing (I have WAY too much time on my hands) is that Wolf 209 primers work flawlessly using Promo, Nitro100, GreenDot, Unique, and WSF in NORMAL loadings. If you never load at highest levels per data, but stay "in the middle", you likely won't have excessive pressure to deal with. My particular favorite trap load (A-A hull, 18 Promo, DR-XL wad, Wolf 209, pushing 1 oz of #8s chronos 1210 fps with 8950 psi pressure. Pretty much the same using Cheddite 209s. BTW, the Wolfs are made in Murom, Russia.
     
  15. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    " I have loaded 600 rounds in the last 2 days and have shot 300 of them already....Shot the first 100 blind ( mixed half a box of shells with Win 209 and half with Wolf ) could tell no difference what-so-ever in the way the shells preformed. I'm sold!!!!!! For the price difference I will be using Wolf from now on."

    I couldn't tell any difference between Winchester primers and Rio primers in my loads either, and that was why I was shocked when the first test results came back with peak pressures of 13,500 psi and higher (max for 12 ga. is 11,500 psi). That's when I learned that peak pressure and felt recoil aren't necessarily related and that shoulders and breaking targets are stupid substitutes for a pressure gun with a good chrono and a savvy operator.

    Considering that the difference between using inconsistent primers and good quality primers amounts to a whole 1¢ a shell or 25¢ a box, it's just false economy to take chances with untested components.

    Good luck to you...

    Morgan
     
  16. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    Does anyone know for a fact winchester actually makes winchester primers or are we just assuming they do,would they actually admit it if they were not??

    Bill
     
  17. johns6

    johns6 TS Member

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    Andy44,
    Where or how did you acquire your pressure readings? Very good info.
     
  18. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    I've heard unsubstantiated mutterings that they might be made by Cheddite in France, but I'm not sure why that would be important.

    There is published data for them and I've had them tested along side Rio primers so I have my own data that shows me how they perform with the components I use.

    Morgan
     
  19. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    Subject: wolf primers,are they any good?
    From: johns6
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    Date: Mon, Apr 21, 2008 - 09:06 PM ET
    Website Address:

    Andy44, Where or how did you acquire your pressure readings? Very good info.

    Friend of mine has an Oehler Model 43 that we use A LOT, as we both roll our own shotshells and rifle/pistol ammo. Try this simple primer test for some interesting results: Take a good hull, load a primer, insert a wad ONLY, and DO NOT crimp. Be sure you have a safe area to fire this "load" and have at least 60 clear feet. Hold gun level and fire; then measure how far the wad went. Try this using different primers. Also, if you have the fortune to own a T/C Contender .22Mag, you can use 209 primers to propel a .22 air rifle pellet.
    I found significant differences in primer "power" using theses methods. Pretty much mimics the power "ratings" of primers in general.
     
  20. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    The only important issue if cheddite does make winchester primers is where/how to justify the cost between the two.

    Bill
     
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