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Windjammer Loading Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Old Fowler, Mar 21, 2010.

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  1. Old Fowler

    Old Fowler TS Member

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    Have noted several off-sounding loads since I began loading STS hulls with windjammer wads. Have same problem with either Claybuster or Downrange windjammers, but do not have any problems when using versalite, fig. 8 or WWA12 wads in the STS. Following a recipe in the current Alliant book, I'm dropping 17.5 grains of Promo with a Rem 209p primer and 1 1/8 oz shot which should be a solid 1145 fps/8900 psi load.

    I'm very careful about dropping the correct grains of Promo; weigh 4 or 5 shells per box and find excellent, consistent metering (+ or - a tenth) with my Hornady 366. Have checked the wad guide fingers and found they are all intact and in good condition, even installed a new one just for good measure.

    If it's not a light powder issue, then I have to assume the punk loads are being caused by a poor powder seal. Was told, some years ago, by a factory rep (can't remember if this guy was associated with CB or DR) that windjammer wads did not require any wad pressure and actually performed better without any pressure so I am not putting any pressure on the wads. My crimps are tight and are very close to the same depth as a factory STS.

    Have you had this problem? Do those of you who load windjammers in STS cases use any wad pressure and, if so, how much?

    Thanks in advance for any of your experiences with and resolutions to this problem.

    OF
     
  2. Robb

    Robb Member

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    On a Mec I think you need to see the wad pressure gauge move slightly, any more than that is wasted. Not sure how that is on a 366 but be sure the wad is tight on the powder. JMO.
     
  3. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    I have stopped loading Claybuster windjammer wads for that very reason CB- 4118-12b. Gave 2500 away!
     
  4. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    I've never tried Promo powder but I've loaded Original Windjammers, DR Windjammers and Claybuster Windjammers with those hulls and AA hulls with Clays and Red Dot without issues.
     
  5. cunninmp

    cunninmp Member

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    Hi Old Fowler,
    I've been using Windjammers since they first came out with various

    powders. Never had a problem with 1 1/8 or 1 oz wads. I would look at

    wad seating as a problem. There should be a small amount of pressure

    applied as with any wad. For my STS hulls, both my PW and Spolar apply

    wad pressure.

    Mike Cunningham
     
  6. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    The only time I had a problem with windjammers was when I had a missing finger in my wad guide. Ron
     
  7. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Does anyone really believe these wads don't work? All of the wad pressure required is applied by a proper crimp. Primers not a likely problem. I would look for a problem with the powder drop. I have had no problems with Windjammer or DR Jammer wads.
     
  8. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I have used thousands upon thousands of Windjammers with sts hulls and never ever had a problem. I use the original WTW.
     
  9. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    This may or may not have a thing to do with this discussion but a couple of years ago, I chronographed five shots each of two versions of three different recipes. The three loads were identical except for the wad - three had the Remington TGT-12S and three had Windjammers. All six were in once-fired STS hulls and consisted of a one-ounce load, a mild 1-1/8 load and a heavy 1-1/8 load. The average velocity of all three Windjammer loads was about 35 feet per second slower than those with the TGT-12S wad. The test was performed in warm temperatures.

    I've loaded Windjammers and shot them in all temperatures without a problem but I don't store my shells in a cold environment. But based upon my little test, I feel safe in saying that Windjammers might not seal quite as well.

    Ed
     
  10. slugbug1

    slugbug1 Member

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    Cheap plastic resin wads are supposed to do all sorts of things, including sometimes reducing "felt" recoil. According to my shoulder, forget it. A lighter wad reduces "ejecta" mass, and will reduce free recoil, but not substantially. The "Windjammer" wads were supposed to reduce recoil, and often they did. In this case, it was because they often leaked like a sieve and reduced muzzle velocity. A few enterprising folks actually chronographed their loads, and the original "Windjammer" was replaced by the "Windjammer II." No longer did it seal so poorly, and no longer was it a "soft shooting wad." Forget the wad nonsense.

    Saw this somewhere......thought I'd pass it on. GaryL.
     
  11. Old Fowler

    Old Fowler TS Member

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    Thanks everyone for your responses. I've set my wad pressure to just under 30 lbs. and have lowered my crimp just a bit so we'll see how these adjustments work in, hopefully, creating a better seal. I've noted a little less shot rattle now when shaking the loaded shell.

    Will post my results back on this thread after shooting a few boxes of STS hulls with the DR windjammers and the new adjustments.

    Thanks again,

    OF
     
  12. slugbug1

    slugbug1 Member

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    I hope you were joking about the shot rattle. GaryL.
     
  13. Old Fowler

    Old Fowler TS Member

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    No Gary, wasn't joking. Shake most any factory shell and will probably note a very slight sound of shot 'rattling' (maybe a poor choice of words on my part), but they all can't be so tightly compact that there is literally no shot movement inside the wad and inside bottom of crimp. The point I was trying to make is, even though there was only very minimal shot movement prior to my adjustments, it has been reduced now to the extent is sounds much like a factory load when shaken. All components are now more tighly fitted. Make sense?

    Thanks for your response.

    OF
     
  14. slugbug1

    slugbug1 Member

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    OF...I just checked my reloads with the windjammers and you can shake em but you don't hear or feel anything moving. Solid as a rock. Anybody else hear the shot when you shake your shells? Now I'm curious....
     
  15. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I can hear them moving around in there, maybe is the powder ?
     
  16. digger1dog

    digger1dog Member

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    Fowler,

    I use D/R Windjammers and have for years with 17.2gr 700X with excellent results, when I dropped off my K80 for the reciever service with Kery Allor I gave him 2 boxes of reloads and asked him to print the barrel (all barrel/choke work by Allor), his response was the pattern was 3% better than his standard new ammo and recommended no changes to the load I was useing. I understand this may not be typical or an exception to the rule but that is my story and I will stick to it...Good Luck.

    Fred J.
     
  17. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    I've use Claybuster Lightning wads for a long time, but finally quit trying to use them with the new HS AA hulls. The non-beveled base seem to hang up a lot on the top edge of the base wad, making a real mess when using a progressive loader.

    They do work fine for STS, Gun Club, Estate, etc., and they pattern great; Plus, they are a buck a bag cheaper than my regular wad, the CB 1100-12.

    Kiv
     
  18. Old Fowler

    Old Fowler TS Member

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    Freddie:

    Remember the 'punk' load I had at the first inter-club shoot this winter? That's what I'm talking about in this thread. I don't often use this STS load with a WJ but when I do I always seem to have a couple off-sounding surprises in each box.

    I have about 2500 DR jammers and would like to use them. I've made a couple loader adjustments this week and am now applying about 25 pounds of pressure on the wad and also have adjusted the crimp so it's a little deeper. I think the deeper crimp is much more significant than the wad pressure in this case. This should serve to push the wad down on the powder and, hopefully, create a better gas seal. I'm confident it's not a powder drop issue because I weigh a lot of shells throughout my loading process and find very little deviation (an occassional 1 or 2 tenths). We'll see what happens. I don't have this problem with any other wad/case combination being loaded on any of my 366 machines?? Probably should also mic some of the wad bases; I'm beginning to wonder if my particular lot of wads may have some smaller diameters?? Have you ever seen this?

    Do you apply any wad pressure? How deep is your crimp? I'm wondering if I should go back to Red Dot for the STS hulls which would use a little more volume??

    This Saturday is my work day at the club so will see you there...

    Cliff
     
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