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Winchester Super X-1 Serial Numbers

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Alpha_Three_Niner, Mar 27, 2007.

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  1. Alpha_Three_Niner

    Alpha_Three_Niner TS Member

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    Has anyone seen a serial number less than 1000 on the SX-1?

    Has anyone seen a serial number greater than 89,000 on the SX-1?

    Recent posts related to SX-1 Serial Numbers has prompted me to ask. I am fascinated with the guns and thought the information might be out there.

    Thanks,
     
  2. Alpha_Three_Niner

    Alpha_Three_Niner TS Member

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    Hi Bob-
    Thanks for the feedback. Do you know if what you saw were the Kusmit Pigeon and Super Pigeons? both were three digit, but were not prefixed with the "M". I could be wrong, but I recall Bob B. sent me a pic with an "X" prefixed gun which was an experimental.

    I'm really looking for the "M" prefixed guns above and below 1,000 and 89,000. The "DU" guns were all three digit. I believe the "MF" guns were 3 digit as they were limited to 500. The "SXP" and the "SX5P" were three digit also.

    It's all good fun...
     
  3. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, my SXP is two digits not counting the leading zeros...I have not seen one with three digits, but perhaps they exist.

    I have also not seen an M serial number less then 1000 or 89000 or up...
     
  4. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    : Baron23, Is your first name Wally? If so I think you bought my Super pigeon. Did you get a two barrel set with all the factory paper? Jeff
     
  5. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jeff - I wish I got your Super Pigeon...no, this is a Pigeon, serial 0036 I believe (would need to go the safe and check...36 or 38...I can never remember without looking). Came with factory paper and when shown to Ken Hurst he said, "yep, that was engraved in my shop". At one time Ken's company was the outsourced engraver for Win and did the pigeons...maybe the SP also. I wouldn't call it great engraving, it was a production job done to a price point, but I still love it, I understand that only 48 pigeons were made (per Boomer). The Kusmit engraved Pigeon that used to show on Bob's website was better than my gun. But, its in excellent condition and its mine (yeah, hoarding runs in the family)

    By the by, my name is Stephen Meyers and I live rather close to, and am friends with, Bob Finger who posts here...we both miss Bob Baumgart, I just liked the fella.

    Bob did turn me on to a fella who had a Super Pigeon that he "wanted" to sell...but he would never name a price, just wanted me to make an offer. I got tired of dancing around with him, didn't think he was serious and thought he could wasted someone else's time.

    Instead I bought a slick sided late serial number NIB (88149)and Ken Hurst is engraving it now...gold inlay game scenes, upland on left and waterfowl on the right...not the factory pattern, I believe that this will be an order of magnitude better composition and engraving. Much better scene, much more intricate scroll work, gold wire frame...but still true to the overall intent and tradition of the 12-5 pattern. I recently bought a completely awe inspiring blank of extremely marbled English Walnut from Cecil Fredi and am agonizing over who to do the stock work (hey, anything worth doing is worth obsessing over, no?)

    Even so, I would buy a factory SP if I came across one....cause its factory.

    Cheers

    Stephen
     
  6. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Ahhh... Ok, The guy I sold it too had a last name that was sort of like your sign on name. I am thinking about having one done myself. I still have digital pictures of my Super pigeon but that is all..... It's a "had one" instead of a "Got one". I know guys that shot them and the gold inlays fell out. Did you know that the pigeon grade is actulley more of a rarity then the Super pigeon? They made near 100 of the gold guns and luike you said in your post less then 50 of the standard garde. I am thinking about having an old winchester engraver do a 12-5 pattern for me. I have several recievers that are new. Jeff
     
  7. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    Jeff - Bob did tell me that they made 48 pigeons and that they did indeed make more Super Pigeons...although I did not know how many.

    As to the inlays falling out, Ken and I talked about a related subject. There are two ways to put on a gold figure, true inlay where the outline is relieved and the edges back cut, the inlay put in, and then pinned in place under the back cut. This is the best and is what Ken does. The other method is to relieve just a little, if at all, then stipple the inside of the outline, then hammer on the gold figure. This is subject to falling out. There is a name for this later method but I can't remember what its called.

    I don't know for a fact which way the SP's were made, but Ken would know. By the by, I would highly recommend Ken Hurst as an excellent engraver, not a highway robber on price, a font of engraving history, and a very, very nice gentleman to deal with.

    If you care to e-mail me, remove the XXX's s.l.meyersXXX@comcast.net

    If interested, I will send you pics of my pigeon and the artwork that I am having engraved on the new gun and Ken's contact data.

    By the by, Baron23 was my call sign in the USAF...I don't actually think I'm royalty, maybe a royal PITA sometimes, but that is about it. The Pacific Aggressor Squadron call signs were Baron and a number...I can't remember yesterday, but I seem to remember that call sign so I use it for a sign on.

    By the by the by, the fella with the SP that Bob put me onto was a guy named Ronnie..don't actually know him but I gathered he wanted something around $6,500 for the gun and I wasn't going to give that to him.

    Best to you.
     
  8. SX-1 Man Bud

    SX-1 Man Bud Member

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    I have the Kusmit Pigeon that's being talked about. The serial number is M153. Wish I could find it's companion Super Pigeon M152. The pair were owned by a fellow in Maryland before Bob got them. Bob removed the wood from the Pegion (???)and sold the gun to a gentelman in Va. He had Tom Smith wood installed.
    I bought the gun from him. Bob would not tell me who bought Super Pegion. Do any of you guy's know who has it?

    Bud
     
  9. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    It sounds like many of us had talks with our dearly departed friend. A fountain of knowlage was lost when Bob left. 6500 used to seem like a whole bunch for one but know that sounds like a good deal if you want one. I am not a collector so I would rather just have a gun built up and engraved the way I want. I like the 12-5 pattern and that is what i am thinking of having done. I am going to have my Starling gun done some day. It will be one of a kind. Picture a cherry orchard with a flock of the little black buggers winging in on the left side of the reciever. On the right I will have a bunch leaving the orchard except one will be clearly shot and a cherry will be falling to the ground out of the starling's bill. I love it when they do that. Jeff
     
  10. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    Is serial # SX5P0010 a pigeon or a super pigeon and what is the difference?
     
  11. Alpha_Three_Niner

    Alpha_Three_Niner TS Member

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    SX5P0010 is a Super Pigeon. It differs from the Pigeon in that it has the gold inlays. The Pigeon did not have the inlays. However, same pattern for the engraving.
     
  12. 682 beretta

    682 beretta Member

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    can someone post a picture of 12-5 engraving?
    thank you.
     
  13. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Here ya go. Jeff
     
  14. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    I have an interesting Super-X. It supposedly came out of a collection from the Chicago area a few years back. It is serial numberM7752(X). The case has part of a sticker that has the letters...ory Marke... I have been told the fine engraving and gold inlay work by Pasotti Carlo in Brescia, Italy would cost a fortune today. It appears to have all the upgrades including Ester barrel work, custom wood, stainless gas system, wire hull catchers, etc. Whoever had it shot it as it does show some wear. Someone looked me up once asking about the gun. When I told him what I knew about the gun he just said he was hoping I didn't know what I had. The truth is I don't know what I have... Ron Renouf in San Antonio.
     
  15. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    I had one with 3 digits...Can't remember the number, may have been 799.
     
  16. arthalony

    arthalony Member

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    Guys, I was told buy a very good source at Winchester that any number before 1000 was expermental. I sold a gun to a gentleman in Texas, the sec# was 1000. It had a letter of authenticity with it. It was the first super X off the line for the American public.

    Dan
     
  17. Alpha_Three_Niner

    Alpha_Three_Niner TS Member

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    It's very interesting that Winchester Serialization indicates that the first Winchester 50 was serial 1000. The first Winchester 59 was serial 1000. No Serial records shown after the model 59.

    I think any serial number below 1000 would be a unique find.

    Looks like Ron from SA has a unique one with the Italian engraving. WOW!

    SX5P0010 is another nice find!

    I was told by the folks at Cody that they were to receive a bunch of records from Winchester early this year. It will be interesting to see what shows up.

    At the end of the day, Serial Numbers don't matter much,,, but it's fun to learn from them. What a great gun!

    Thanks for the posts.
     
  18. tomaso

    tomaso Member

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    serial # 88632 is a monte carlo trap with smooth sides, stainless gas system and 30" full choke (not trap choke) bbl. tmc
     
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