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Winchester Model 12 Gun Smithing Questions

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by g7777777, Sep 2, 2007.

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  1. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Have you adjusted the headspace?

    Gene
     
  2. mod12man

    mod12man TS Member

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    I had one that wore almost completely thru at that spot. you could hold it up to the light and see the light coming thru. but the symptoms to that are usually the gun not locking up rather than a firing pin issue. Gene may be right in it being a headspace issue which is easily fixed. the receiver being "hammered" out usually means you now have a parts gun since milled rib recievers are not an easy find.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    flincher100- Is it possible that by moving the barrel/chamber back with the chamber ring, that would reduce the head space. If not, you have destroyed another myth that I have believed for many years. Your previous post did convince me that you understand the fine old M-12 much better than I do.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. winchesterm12

    winchesterm12 TS Member

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    Flincher hit it right on. What many call a head space adjustment actualy does nothing for the head space. Head space is the space between bolt face and the chamber ring. The take up ring on the barrel, that some people call the head space adjustment, adjusts the space between the face of the barrel and the chamber ring which, oviously, is on the opposite side of the chamber ring than the bolt face. What this adjustment does is it keeps the barrel assembly fitting tight against the receiver. This allows for the gun to be tightened up as the gun wears, most of the wear between the barrel and receiver comes when the gun is assembled and disassembled or when a gun that is not fitting together tight enough is shot. Head space adjustment is properly done by changing the chamber ring, a job for a qualified gunsmith with the correct tools for doing so.
     
  5. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    flincher100 and winchesterm12 know what they're talking about. When the M12 was prevalent in trapshooting the problem was not uncommon and there were a number of facilities capable of repairing them. Today, probably Stu Wright, maybe some others.

    What nobody has mentioned so far is how the gun got into this condition. To my knowledge, the only way is for the gun to have been shot continually with the bolt not up tight in the top of the receiver...a condition precipitated by wear on the aft end of the action slide. This allows the action to lock with the bolt less and less into the receiver notch. For novice M12 shooters...place you car key into the bottom of a closed and locked receiver beside the shell lift. Push up on the bottom of the bolt with the key. If the bolt moves more than about 1/8"...get it fixed or you'll be visiting LesDriskill's problem. If you have a mig welder and propane torch and are half handy you can do it yourself. Heck! Even I can do it...and have.

    Buz
     
  6. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to mod12s....


    Mike's Gun Smithing

    1339 E Artesia Blvd
    Long Beach, CA 90805
    (562) 984-2529


    Great all around gunsmith, but he loves and shoots Mod12s!
     
  7. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Just for clarification

    If the adjustment ring pushes the barrel into the the receiver face-- doesnt that in fact shorten the distance from the bolt face to the chamber face if that barrel wasnt tight to the receiver before?

    I think it does --

    I think that adjustment should be tried before anything else with the symptoms that were given in this case

    It is commonly referred to as a headspace adjustment- right or wrong -- but if the barrel fit into the receiver isnt tight I can see the rational for naming it such

    They also make replacement chamber rings and this was a common gunsmithing option before

    If you try the adjustment and it doesnt work- I would send it to Wrights-- they are the expert in this area and they are fair on pricing

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  8. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Your original and first questions - "Has anyone ever had this problem? And have you gotten it fixed?" Yes, I had a M.12, 1928 nickel steel, that had the "recoil cut" hammered out from many years of use and I had it fixed by a competent gunsmith in the '70s. The cut is built up with welding then re-shaped to bring the gun back to original condition. There's no point in my trying remember the smith's name cuz he's dead and buried now. Were it me, however, I'd consider Wrights Gunsmithing, Stu Wright in Illinois....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  9. winchesterm12

    winchesterm12 TS Member

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    Again flincher is right on. The face of the barrel is not the chamber. there is a ring inside the chamber (chamber ring) that is sanwiched in between the barrel face and the bolt face. It is friction fit into the receiver and is held in place by a small screw that wedges it in place. The barrel assembly has no effect on the distance between the bolt face and chamber ring. To see this take the front assembly off a m-12 and look into the front of the receiver you will see the ring and the screw that holds it in place and through the hole in the ring you will see the bolt face. The distance between the ring and the bolt face is where you measure headspace not between the barrel and the bolt face. Weather or not you like this explanation if you don't know what your doing don't try to do it yourself. Remember that a shotgun contains 7-11000 psi when fired and that chamber preasure is about 8" from your face, hire a qualified person and stay safe.



    Pumpgunner


    jake
     
  10. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    flincher100 is right again. Sorry Gene, you're totally off-base on this problem. The bbl. adjustment ring has no effect on head space. Head space is a product of bolt position and the chamber ring/head space ring mounted inside the receiver. There are no adjustments to solve the problem LesDriskill has....the notch in the receiver must be built (welded) back up and re-cut and the head space re-set. And no, the bbl. adjustment ring is not commonly refered to as head space adjustment.

    Buz
     
  11. ol 12 shooter

    ol 12 shooter TS Member

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    Flincher is right on, the take-up ring has NOTHING to do or is it related to headspace. The chamber ring, and ONLY the chamber ring is where the headspace is adjusted from.

    Firing pins that break in a Mod 12 are usually caused by a couple things, bad headspace or an aftermarket cheap non-fitting firing pin. First off make sure your pin is broken, it will misfire with a broken pin. Also if the bolt does not seat completely up into the receiver when closed the safety at the pin is not fully clearing the pin when the hammer is dropped creating either a misfire or weak hit.

    Go to a local gunsmith a try go-no/go gauge first, that will tell you if need a new ring, if that checks out then go from there. There's too many things that will cause what you describe, a worn slide where it pulls the bolt will also cause that. An action release bar thats worn won't hold the bolt tight to the face of the ring either. You need to take the gun to a qualified expert on the gun and have it checked out.

    So many of these guns were pieced together with non-fitting parts by there previous owners also causing these problems.

    Good Luck,
    ol 12
     
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