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winchester 209 and cci 209 interchangeable?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by hunterdau2, Feb 23, 2010.

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  1. hunterdau2

    hunterdau2 TS Member

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    Just wondering if winchester 209 and cci 209 are safe to alternate. Found a decent deal on cci 209 primers and can't find any info on 1 oz E3 powder loads. Can anyone give me some info or point me in the right direction to research it.

    Thanks.
    Dan
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    They are not the same. It's best to confirm published data or ask the powder companies for advice. Swapping primers can be a very risky adventure.
     
  3. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    If you have or can get access to the Lyman 4th editon shotshell handbook, it has some tests by Lyman and Hodgdon showing pressures created by changing primers only,on some 12 gauge target loads, that may provide you with the information that is of interest to you. Look on page 49. I believe the 5th edition also has the primers rated in relation to how hot they are.
     
  4. acorange

    acorange Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that any difference would matter in any low pressure target load.
    including any 1oz. load with e-3.
    My 2 cents..... Jump on the deal
     
  5. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Here is a good article on primers. Quack Shot is right, give Alliant a call. Wayne
     
  6. hunterdau2

    hunterdau2 TS Member

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    Called alliant today and got the info i needed. With the load i am using they are interchangeable, shouldn't be any problems.

    Dan
     
  7. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Rick Barker wrote:

    You cannot interchange them. The CCI's are hotter and can cause pressure increases. Example: According to Hodgdon loading manual, using Clays powder, WW AA hull and WW wad, 1-1/8 oz of shot to produce a 1200 fps shell.

    Using a W209 and 18.2 grains of powder, your PSI would be 9800 lbs

    Using a CCI and 18.1 grains of powder, your PSI would be 11,300 lbs.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rick,

    This is NOT correct! You did not copy the data correctly from the Hodgdon manual.

    Using the W209 primer, the pressure is 9800 LUP

    Using the CCI primer, the pressure is 11300 PSI

    LUP is NOT the same as PSI. There is no direct correlation between LUP and PSI.



    Easystreet
     
  8. NO BIRD

    NO BIRD TS Member

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    I have contacted Ben at Alliant and he said,Quote "The CCI 209 will work just fine in place of either the Win or Rem primer. Thanks for your note."

    Ben

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: jonmrozinski@sbcglobal.net <jonmrozinski@sbcglobal.net>
    To: Alliant Reloading
    Sent: Mon Aug 17 12:02:16 2009
    Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form
     
  9. NO BIRD

    NO BIRD TS Member

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    I don't see many listings for the cci 209 primer. I have several of them and I would like to know if they can be used in 1 oz loads @ 1200 fps with red dot and e3 using claybuster CB1100-12.

    Jon
     
  10. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    My experience is that the CCI 209 is MILDER than the Win 209 primer. Recently I ran out of Win 209 primers and I substituted a couple hundred CCI 209 primers that I had left from several years ago. I was loading 1 ounce 12 gauge loads with 17.4 grains Clays powder, WAA12SL wads, in Win AA hulls. The CCI primers worked fine.

    Easystreet
     
  11. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Primers can have different characteristics, depending on the load they are used in. Sometimes one might produce higher pressures in one load and do the exact opposite in another. It's a crap shoot. It's best to work with the advice of someone that has done the testing and has data to support it. If you read the Lyman manual CAREFULLY, they imply something about not using their primer comparison as a guide. It's some examples showing that the pressures can, and will, vary with different primers. IN NO WAY should you use the listing as a relative chart for substituting primers. They specifically warn against substitution of shotshell primers and make the statement that primer performance is not predictable. They state that there are only two sets of primers that are interchangeable. Two of those primers are no longer manufactured. The discussion starts on page 44 in the Lyman 5th edition.
     
  12. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Easystreet,

    Looking at Hodgdon's Basic Reloader's Manual 2008 ed.

    Win AA hull, 1 oz of shot, WAA12SL wad:

    CCI 209, 17.0 gr Clays 1180 f/s 8700 psi

    Win 209, 17.2 gr Clays 1180 f/s 8300 LUP

    Fed 209A 16.9 gr Clays 1180 f/s 9000 psi

    Can't really compare the psi vs LUP, but it takes less powder to get 1180 f/s, I would say that with Clays powder CCI 209 are a little hotter than Win 209 but milder than Fed 209As.

    Jason
     
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