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Winchester 101 disappointment

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Har3rdus, Mar 8, 2010.

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  1. Har3rdus

    Har3rdus Member

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    Shooting Gurus,

    I recently bought a Winchester 101, unisingle, diamond grade, 12 guage, 34 inches, ported, full choke (multiple chokes came with the gun)with the high hopes that this gun would bring me up and shoot with the big boys at the local shooting club. However, just the opposite has happened. Instead of shooting 23, 24 and 25 with my ever trusty Beretta Mark II, the Win 101 has dropped me into the 19, 20, and 21 class. I shot about 1000 rounds with the Win 101, and I can not break into the straight 25 class. What is the problem? Are there nuances and quirks with the Win 101 that I am missing? I patterned the gun at 40 yards, and it puts 60 % of the shot above the center mark. There are some holes in the pattern where a bird can sneak through, but that is not a valid excuse. Positive comments and help greatly appreicated.
    True Blue and Diamond Hard,
    Harry
     
  2. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    You have not shot it enough to judge what will come in the future.
     
  3. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Buy some quality aftermarket chokes (Trulock, Briley, etc) and keep shooting it. It takes a while. Bill Malcolm
     
  4. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'll be positive. The gun does not fit you like your old one did, period. Guys like to think a "better" gun will make them shoot better. Most of that is crap. A gun that fits and muscle memory matched to that fit will cause scores to rise. You need to relearn how to hit with the new gun. That's going to take awhile.
     
  5. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Since 1972 I have had a double dozen guns that I thought would make my scores go from 95/96 percent to the magic 99-100. 101s, Citoris, Cynergies (sp?), Autos, everything under the sun including a couple of BTs. Shot them all spring and summer, got a few good scores but always dusted off the TB and won the club championship about half the time and never was out of the top five. Stick with what works.
     
  6. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    You either make the gun shoot for you or you learn to shoot the gun. Post-2
     
  7. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    I agree with OMGB partially. The new gun doesn't fit you. But I disagree that if you keep shooting it, you will overcome the poor fit. Maybe, but not completely.

    The gun has to fit you well, so that every time you bring it up to your shoulder, you have a perfect sight picture, without bending your head around the stock, or any other contortion that will tire you. Even if you're comfortable with the gun, and you have a good sight picture, how level are your glasses? if the top of your glasses make an angle of more than about 15 degrees with the horizon, you are getting a distorted view of the world when you shoot.

    Put another way, guys who claim that this gun is better than that one and they can shoot the lights out with Brand X are really telling you that Brand X fits THEM - not you.

    Want to improve your scores with the new gun? Get a GOOD stock fitter to help you. Swing, balance, choke pattern, etc. - that's for guys dropping 2 -3 target at the most. You need a stock that fits you to get into that league.

    Ted K.
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Does the gun fit you? Do you feel like when you shoot it that you and the gun have become a single operating unit? Does it balance well and swing smoothly and naturally for you? Does it seem to take itself to the target or does it seem like you have to force it? Does your face snuggle into the same place on the comb, naturally, every time? If you make a quick barrel check before you look down range to call for the target, are you seeing the same thing every time? Are YOU committing the fundamentals properly or are you focusing on the gun and forgetting to set up properly, focus and use your eyes properly, and follow through properly?
     
  9. need to shoot more

    need to shoot more Active Member

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    Its never the guns fault, I have had Brownings BT-99, Citoris,Perrazzis,1100,870,SKB, Winchester 12s,101 Diamond and Live Bird 3200s Beretta, no K gun yet.
    My best shooter for me 870 and a Ithica Century single barell trap both guns are $500.00 its a guy thing.
    Jim Zee
     
  10. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Stay with what got you there.

    I learned this lesson over ten years ago. Switching guns is the biggest mistake a trapshooter can make. You have to "relearn" a whole new gun. If it's a combo - you have to "learn" THREE guns.

    That's why I stay with my Remington 1100.

    Stay with your Mark II and sell the other gun
     
  11. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    Harry, I can understand wanting to upgrade from the ole Beretta but what you upgraded to has different handling characteristis/dynamics than what you have been shooting. As such, there will be a learning curve. It may very well be as others stated that this new gun with different configuration/style does not compliment your previous form. If you continue to use this gun, fitting could possibly be inorder for you. It all but impossible to handle fitting issues without observing alot of factors with watching you shoot. All may not be lost with you using this gun but time and fitting are going to be inorder.

    You also stated that this gun shot 60% high at 40 yds. First I need an explanation of how you came up with the assertive 60% figure to understand this. Its not as simple as what some local gun club guru most likely explained. But beyond that and assuming that 60% is relative, relative to what? Did the Beretta print the same POI? That is what you would be wanting to find out as at this point, its the truth you seek..

    If I have come across negative I apologize but felt it was the appropriate way to give answers you seek. I do have a negative comment on the gun inquestion but will not state at this time as you have only asked for postive responses.

    Martin Wilbur
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Unfortunately, buying a new gun and finding out it just isn't for you is part of shooting trap. That is why there are a lot of trap guns for sale around trap clubs. I suspect I have done it 20 times or more.

    Martin- You are to the point with good advice but you are never negative.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

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    Har3rdus,


    Beretta Mark II's were designed with a heavier barrel that puts more weight forward. That was Beretta's intention at the time - to make a weight forward gun to smooth out the swing. Many people shoot these guns with success and many don't.


    The bottom line is your change from the Beretta to the 101 will take some time due to the above and the change in the balance of the 101.


    Michael Stephenson
     
  14. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I'm with Martin on this one.. First..hit the pattern boards... then see a stock fitter... then if needed.. balance the gun to fit YOUR shooting style.
     
  15. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member

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    MKSTEPHEN is right - gun balance is very different, as is mount. You did not indicate if you have a monte carlo stock and how your other gun was stocked.

    A close friend switched from a Berreta to the exact same Win 101, and it took him 3 months to get it dialed in. He now shoots a solid 24 (95-96 ATA Reg). Give it time and work with it. Or sell it to me - I love them and have 4 already. (unsingle diamond grade):)
     
  16. PA101_guy

    PA101_guy TS Member

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    Those Diamond Grades are BAD guns.....that's why I have 3 of them :)

    Seriously.... pattern, make sure the gun fits you and stick with it. Your DG is a much different gun than a Mark II in balance and being an unsingle it'll take getting used to.

    KEEP SMOKIN' EM.... Dave
     
  17. ljuticsscentennialpro

    ljuticsscentennialpro Member

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    May have a different point-of-impact.
     
  18. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Make life easy -- stick with that ol' Beretta Mark II. It's a classic and the most trap gun for the buck you can buy!

    -Gary
     
  19. kolarroy

    kolarroy TS Member

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    I've seen Winchester screw chokes pattern all over the board. That's why I shoot fixed chokes. If you are going to keep it, send it to Tom Wilkinson and let him work the barrel. Hopefully the stock fits. If not, check with a stock fitter as soon as possible. Roy
     
  20. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member

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    Kolaroy, I have patterned all of my Win 101's with mod/imp mod/full, and they all pattern where they should (with in acceptable limits). I also never had an issue with lock time. Frankly, I find it hard to see how that would impact - when I switch between my Win and a Berretta, I don't notice any difference.

    I DID put stronger springs in because of occasional mis-fires, but heck - the gun is 20+ years old and has been shot every week for hundreds of rounds. I consider that like a brake job - it's gonna have to get done at some point.

    I will try a Silver Sietz when I get a chance. It would be interesting to see if the lock time made a difference.
     
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