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WIN SUPER TARGET vs. REM GUN CLUB (opinions)

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rem-Guy, Apr 17, 2013.

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  1. Rem-Guy

    Rem-Guy TS Member

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    I have always been a Remington guy as you can tell by my handle. But a local retailer has a good price on some Winchester Super Targets and the Remington Gun Clubs are hard to find in my area. Question is... what, if any, are the advantages of either one. I am new to the sport and do not reload.
    Thanks, Justen
     
  2. acorange

    acorange Well-Known Member

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    IMHO the super targets are not quite as good as the Gun Clubs and the GC's reload much better.
    Quite often the ST's are cheaper though.....
     
  3. 3357

    3357 Member

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    WIN SUPER TARGET vs. REM GUN CLUB

    I recently switched to the WW Super Target shell. I have been very happy with them from the 16 yd line (I use WW AA super handicap shells for handicap). Before I purchased a large quantity of them I tried them in practice for a while and cut one open. The components appear to consist of a Winchester primer, some type of ball powder, a WW wad and shot that is of good quality and consistant but a little softer (by drop test) than the shot found in the WW AA super handicap shells.

    For what its worth I believe you are pretty much getting a AA load in a junk hull.

    If you are a new shooter I would caution you to not confuse the Winchester "Super Target shell" (described above) with the much lower quality and violently recoiling Winchester Super Speed shell, which I do not and will not use. Hope this is of some help.
     
  4. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Friend of mine works for Remington and for what it's worth, told me the GC shell has chilled shot. Read above thread" The WW shell uses the same stuff as a AA, but in a junk hull. Winchester told me the shot used in the super target is the same as the AA. I have no way to test the shot, maybe someone else does.....
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Gun Clubs have soft lead shot which is OK for Singles but not good enough for Handicap. Winchester Super Targets can be used for Handicap but I don't try to reload them.
     
  6. Rem-Guy

    Rem-Guy TS Member

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    Thanks for all of the info... keep it coming.
    Is it safe to assume; that the W Super target has harder shot than the GC, and thw W ST uses most of the same components as the more expensive AA except for powder?, the W Super Target is a better shell?
    Justen
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'll check - give me a couple of hours.

    Neil
     
  8. bodybuilder

    bodybuilder TS Member

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    I started using the Winchester Super Target shells a couple years ago and my average went up they are very good shells for the money they cost Gary
     
  9. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Justen, I read sometime back now (in a shooting mag) that the Rem Gun Clubs and the Win. Super Targets shells "both have 3% antimony shot". Now Win. Super Target shells have the Win.'s AA wad. This is the most copied wad in the world!!! It has been proven in the past that the AA's shells have the best pattern of any shell made. Why else would there wad be the most copied. But the bottom line is both shells will be more consistant than most shooters who will read this thread. So shells, and even chokes, are alot less important than the proper pointing of the gun. So buy whatever shells you can find locally at a good price and "Keep You Eye On The Target". Good Luck and break em all. Jeff
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    P&M, it's _never_ been "proven in the past that the AA's shells have the best pattern of any shell made." Never.

    AA's are very good. But mostly good shells of any brand shoot very well too. But they may differ enough to make it worth finding out if you want to make use of every advantage you possibly can.

    One of these is AA.These are big differences, well worth doing the work to find you which you should buy and shoot. A shooter can find out which is best by testing on his or her own.

    BrandAbest0035choke_zpsb7d561e8.gif

    This is more typical, however. In this example, they all shot about the same.

    samebransbestoffour_zps55ea0d85.gif

    Neil
     
  11. Rem-Guy

    Rem-Guy TS Member

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    Well said Jeff, and I could'nt agree with you more. But it's still fun to research these things and if this "fun work" as I sit in my office, can turn a 99 into a 100, its worth it. The truth is I am cheap and like to get the most bang for my buck hahaha
    Justen
     
  12. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Neil, Go ask Mel Helm!!! He worked the Grand American for over 25 years and sold all 3 brands of shells. A good gunsmith too, in his own right as well. I too wonder how one brand can be the best in all guns, but such a task would have to be a ave. for all guns. Now I've "Heard" good things about B&P's new shell and how well it patterns, but alas here we go again. LOL. Break em all. Jeff
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    You can't imagine my disappointment, Jeff, when, expecting a response to my challenge of your assertion "It has been proven in the past that the AA's shells have the best pattern of any shell made." all I got is the name of a long-time ATA employee whose qualifications seem to be no more than "25 years and sold all 3 brands of shells."

    Has he published his experiments? Did he ever tell you what lead him to that belief?

    I'll bet several of the Gamaliel workers at the Sparta Grand have been there for maybe 1/3 of ol' Mel's time and yet I'd not think to ask them what the best shell was since I doubt they would know. I mean, they are helpful enough and steer a mean handcart, but I'm not sure they excel in ballistics as well - it would be too much to ask, wouldn't it?

    Neil
     
  14. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    I find the Winchester Super Target shot to be virtually identical in hardness to the Remington Gun Club shot. The good news is that, typical of Winchester, when you buy #7.5, you get #7.5. Can't always say that about other brands.



    #7.5 shot / Relative Hardness (resistance to deformation)

    Lawrence Magnum =100


    Eagle Magnum =97


    Federal Premium Flyer= 95


    B&P F2 Mach = 92


    Remington Nitro 27's =91


    Winchester AA = 91


    Federal Gold Medal Paper =91


    West Coast Magnum = 91


    Lawrence Magnum Copper =87


    Winchester SuperSport =84


    Federal Premium Field Copper =77


    Fiocchi Nickel Little Rhino =74


    Winchester Super Target =74


    Remington Gun Club =74


    Remington Nitro Express =73


    Winchester Black Diamond Nickel =70


    Gamebore White Gold Nickel =68


    Remington Game Load 16ga =68


    Fiocchi (Italy) HV Field =68
     
  15. coveybuster

    coveybuster Member

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    The Super Targets shot softer in my gun. Your mileage may vary.
     
  16. shrek

    shrek Active Member

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    as to the original question.

    I have found the winchester super targets to work at least as good as Rem gun clubs do.

    The super targets are my throw away hull shell of choice if I am buying some "shoot em and let the hulls fly" shells for something"
     
  17. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Mike, how did you measure the hardness?
     
  18. Redcobra

    Redcobra Active Member

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    I like them. Anecdotal evidence says that the shot is harder than the GC shot. I use GC#8 at the 16 and WST#7.5 for caps. Breaks em hard. I have even reloaded the WST hulls several times using AA data.
     
  19. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Just shoot the darn things.
     
  20. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    I do a drop test. It's all math so numbers are critical.

    In a nutshell, I start by measuring pellets to get 20-30 that are the same...apples to apples....7.5 to 7.5. That's not the same as picking pellets at random from a sample label #7.5.

    Each pellet is placed on an anvil and a standard weight is dropped from a standard distance. This results in a disc, whose diameter I measure and record. Presumably, the softer the shot, the larger the disc that results. The rest is all number crunching to put the data on a scale relative to Lawrence magnum shot which is, repeatedly and invariably, the hardest lead shot I've measured over the last decade.

    I'm curious about the "anecdotal evidence" that suggests one is harder than the other. Can you describe the evidence that led you to that conclusion?
     
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