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Win AA hull id.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bjk1972, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. bjk1972

    bjk1972 Member

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    I know I might get torched for this. I did try to search the archives for it with no luck. A little while ago some one put together a nice post explaining the changes the Win AA hull went through. CF vs HS. Showing examples of the printing and head stamping. Could someone be a gent and hook a fella up with that info. Thanks.
     
  2. Garyspringr

    Garyspringr TS Member

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    On the 12 ga hulls the cf has a box around the aa and I think the hs hulls have hs stamped on the brass, I know the 410 and 28 do. 20 and 12 ga cf hulls use the same data as hs hulls, 28 and 410 do not
     
  3. dustyrcox

    dustyrcox Member

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    What is the difference?
     
  4. wrd

    wrd Member

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    Old style AA's have a square box around the letters AA and no base wad. Next came the first of the HS's. There is not a box around the letters AA and there is a tapered base wad. The base of the brass read from left to right says 12 and GA. I think these were the ones people might have had a problem with though I have reloaded thousands without a problem. Still I now trash them when I come across them. The next AA's were identical except the brass base said AA and HS when read from left to right. The tapered base wad in these is supposedly mechanically bound into the brass base. I have reloaded thousands of these until the plastic fails without a problem.
    My observations. Don't quote me in court.
    My Mec 9000 prefers Winchester AA hulls and they last as long or longer than any other brand.
     
  5. ImpalaBob

    ImpalaBob Member

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    Bad original 2 piece on left which was quickly replaced with ....
    New 2 piece style in middle (much better bond!)
    Original old style on right.

    Thanks to whose ever pic this was (not mine!)


    impalabob_2008_170917.jpg
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    That's my pic but you used it well.

    Here is a pic of the current production 2pc AA. They have the AA with a line underneath. The case head should be stamped HS for High Strength. These are the same as the cut apart hull in the center in the above pic.


    grntitan_2009_2503376.jpg


    These are first generation 2pc AA's and cut apart will look like the grey hulls in the left. They do not have the HS on the case. They have AA in a large box.
    grntitan_2009_2503375.jpg



    Finally these are old one piece compression formed AA's and in my opinion the best hull ever made.
    They have the AA in a smaller box.

    grntitan_2009_2503374.jpg
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I had a lot of problems with the last generation of the one piece compression formed hulls; the soft plastic gave smashed crimps with my PW 900 loader. I'm having no trouble at all with the new generation of AA hulls and load them exclusively.
     
  8. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    mike, I also had trouble with the old compression formed hulls. I would get wrinkles in the fold of the crimp. Nothing I could do about it. I wouldn't use those. No problem with the new ones, all I load.
     
  9. wrd

    wrd Member

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    Just to add to the confusion.
    I have some red AA's that have a tapered base wad, say 12 GA on the base instead of AA/HS and do not have a box around the AA.
    I also have some hulls that seem to be bonded/glued to the base wad and some that are not.
     
  10. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Nice clear pics Barfin.
     
  11. bjk1972

    bjk1972 Member

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    I really appreciate the info. I have roughly 6000 AAs spanning 15 years of shooting in a barrel. What Id like to do is go through and get the first generation of the new style 2 pcs design pulled and discarded. Or at least be able to quickly ID them as they come up while reloading. My 366 loves the AA hulls, although I have had some of the new style buckle on occasion. I have no complaints about them, no need to change. I just should have done a better job organizing them as to age and how often reloaded. Thanks again for the responses. Beats looking down each one with a mag lite! lol Brad
     
  12. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Excellent documentation. Thanks fellas. I've got a bunch with the heavy box that will hit the recycle bin.
     
  13. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the base wad pictures for the 2013 versions of STS and Win, I see that the head pf the STS seems to protrude more in the primer packet area than the Win. Also the AA sits flat but with a small gap between the brass and the bottom of the base wad and the brass punch out for the STS extends considerably deeper into the case than the almost non-existent punch out for the Win.

    Now would the STS, with the higher primer possibly give better primer to firing pin contact? With such would it give a more positive ignition, especially in a gun with slightly more headspace?

    And would the less brass and more plastic contact on the primer on the Win allow for a possibly hot load backing out the primer easier? And with the Win's gap between brass and base wad could a more often reloaded Win perhaps at times allow a bit of primer energy to "leak" out into that gap area or even worse case eventually perhaps allow a fine grained powder to sift into that gap area and help push the base wad away from the brass and into the shell body or beyond? Could this have been a contributing factor to the 1st new generation HS case base wad separation problem?
     
  14. wrd

    wrd Member

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    I have reloaded both types of HS's until the plastic at the crimp gave out without a base wad problem, knock on wood.
    The STS hull is noticeably deeper and longer. Never could get a good crimp on my MEC 9000. They look great coming out of station 5 and the crimp collapses inward at station 6. Tried for months to make it work as AA's are hard to come by here in NC. Gun Clubs, Nitro's and STS's are everywhere.
     
  15. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    WRD, you need to raise your crimp height to accomodate the longer case on the STS hull. Likewise if you load STS you have to drop your crimp height to close the hole in the middle of a AA.
     
  16. wrd

    wrd Member

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    Avaldes. Tried raising the crimp. It would look perfect coming out of station 5. Station 6 and it would collapse inward. Also, it would rattle. Loose shot. Screwed with it for months.
     
  17. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Avaldes, Why would one need to change the crimp height for the STS hull? I have my PW adjusted for AA's and load STS hulls with no change. The extra length of the STS hulls causes the crimp to swirl. Notice how the crimp swirls on new factory STS shells.
     
  18. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Keller, the shells will be the same length with the same depth of crimp. The excess plastic goes into the middle of the crimp. That is why the crimp on the STS shells swirl.
     
  19. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I am looking at it from the opposite direction, where I load mostly STS and have to adjust down to get AA's to close correctly.

    I think the crimp depth is a relative measurement between the pre-crimp and the final crimp settings. So as long as you are moving both together then the center hole, or swirl is the only thing changing.
     
  20. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Had to refer back to this thread after finding some more AA hulls in the basement. They're grey with the box around the AA and they do not say "HS" on the brass. Out they go.