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Why your beloved TRAPSHOOTING is dying.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mr.mark, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Nobody plays the options!!!!!!!!!

    Granted they are called "options" but if nobody plays them then are we just shooting for bragging rights?

    How does that pay for anyone to travel and shoot?

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    If you want to make it interesting then make it like normal activities and have a set entry fee everyone across the board, at least in the HDCP event.

    HELLO it is the HDCP event, if you are a new shooter then you get to shoot up close and the pros have to shoot from farther back so they are disadvantaged!

    Take out $35/entry fee to the club so they can pay for the targets and the help so we aren't relying so much on volunteers, take out another $5/entry fee and buy some gawdy trophys for the winners if you must, then pay that $110/entry fee out to the "high placing" shooters of the day.

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


    Why would any young person who doesn't have a hobby picked out yet, want to get into a sport where even if you become competitive you still won't make enough money to even cover you shooting expenses, let alone travel or lodging.

    Any other event has an "entry fee" that includes payment for use of the grounds and any expendable items used during the action of the event and the rest is divided out amongst the people who did well in the event.

    For example HDCP:
    If your gonna have $28 registered birds,
    100 shells costing best $22.97 from wal-mart and higher yet if you want AA or STS,
    and no mandatory purse money....

    ......Then you just blew over $50 to enter an event that you have no hope (even with Obama's people doing the math) of ever getting back....

    We haven't even gone over the fact that we traveled in our personal vehicle to get here or spent thousand's on a shotgun or all the goofy accessories we have to wear just to shoot.

    So you're only hope is to play all the options and try to perform well. But if less than 20% of the people play the options with you and you do win, then you just spent all afternoon shooting against a bunch of people to win a couple hundred dollars, is that profitable in the long run? Of course not.

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////


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    OK I'm ready for the naysayers, bring it on... I'll check back after I eat dinner.


    Mr. Mark
     
  2. Rich219

    Rich219 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
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    2,125
    I'm not sure if its the sport that is dieing or just those who participate in it are dieing. There's practically no younger participants from what I've seen locally.
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
    So your mind is set your right have fun . You know you will be shooting by yourself . Mandatory purse = no registerd shoots
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    9,406
    Take a lesson from the World Series of Poker. The entry fee for the Main Event is only $10,000. First place gets about $9,000,000, they paid out money to the first 650 places. 650th place got about $25,000. HMB
     
  5. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    Few shooters are willing to play a $20 option when they only stand to win $25.


    Too many high scores.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  6. dflo

    dflo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
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    As a new shooter I started 8 weeks ago and have now logged 1900 registered targets. The fellows I shoot with at the club told me to come out and go to the matches. I have no chance of winning right now. I am lucky to break a 90 in singles and hdcp. and doubles I do fair and break mid 70's. After buying all of this stuff to shoot and paying 60+ dollars a day entry I do not have the cash flow to spend an exrta 100.00 for the options with nothing but luck for me to taste it. I am not downing it but I would rather give the extra cash to a shooting coach and then join in on your games.

    Dsle
     
  7. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    Damn,

    I thought this bait would be too old. Guess not.

    ss
     
  8. ramorton

    ramorton TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Driftwood, Tx
    Why don't you try tournament bass fishing. You'll love that. Oh, yes, how about golf, that's really cheap. Or maybe bowling. I shoot this sport for fun, I work all week and most weekends. If I wanted to make money at shooting, I'd retire and travel and shoot everyday, and hope I won something. Hope this helps, Roy
     
  9. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

    Joined:
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    887
    I agree with Alf....just tell the shooters there is a "Mandatory" purse for anything and that event fails...right now !!!.......Uncle Sam, Pa.
     
  10. Mike Hessong* (MH*)

    Mike Hessong* (MH*) Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
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    Location:
    Victoria, TX
    mr.mark,

    What I have to say is probably NOT what you want to hear. Actually there are 2 really good statements , that pretty much everyone has heard and I find them to be very true. "If you're in this sport just to make money, you better find another sport!" or "You know how you make a small fortune shooting trap (or skeet or sporting clays), start with a large fortune!"

    I just got back from a really nice little National Trapshooting Day shoot at the Fayette County Gun Club in La Grange, Texas. Mainly tis club as well as ours just throw registered targets with no option money or trophies, but it is a good place to practice your competition skills for those big shoots when we get a chance to make them. Todays events had a lewis option with NTD leather trophies from Shamrock Leathers and a nice ATA NTD pin. I was lucky enough to win the singles event and a nice 4-box carrier and ended up winning the lewis option for HOA ($30) on a total cost of $89.75 for the 300 targets in singles, handicap and doubles. I would have been happy to just participate and the $30 was just "icing on the cake".

    I did get lucky enough a couple of weeks ago at the Lone Star Handicap to win the final handicap event with a 99 and get a 1-yard punch back to the 26 yard line. I only played the lewis and yardage options and didn't play the 25's or 50's or the Scholarship Lewis (where I would have finally won one of the nice big, hand-tooled leather bags I have been wanting for so long), buit I decided to save that $15. I kick myself now, but you know what they say about hindsight....

    Don't make the costs of the shoots go up with mandatory purses or higher event cost, just decide where you want to put your money where you think you have the best chance to get a good return. I know I left some "money on the table" but I was still so happy to just tie my best handicap score ever at the right time against some really good shooters who I have learned so much from, and I am just happy to come out on top for once.

    Sorry to run on so long, but I hate to say it, but if I didn't win another dollar shooting; the friends I have made in this sport and the good times I have shooting, I would continue to do just for the good times. Any money won just makes a good time ever better.

    Mike Hessong* (MH*)

    Victoria (Texas) Skeet and Trap Club
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Well there is only one answer that I will give to this fishing expedition. There are many arguments to this question but only one that I will post or that needs to be posted.

    ATA Rulebook page 32

    SECTION VIII PURSES AND OPTIONS

    A. COMPULSORY PURSES

    No compulsory purse and/or option of any type shall be permitted in any tournament in which ATA trophies or ATA added monies are provided.

    Kind of says it doesn't it

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    So, Mr. Mark, whose dinner did you eat? LOL.
     
  13. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
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    Thank you all for your thoughtful insight, especially Bob for calling this rule to my attention.

    I agree that I have a great time at shoots and have made many great friends.

    I've only been shooting for a couple of years and started my march to the back fence in June of this year. Currently on the 24 yard line and hope I can go all the way. I would sure like to be winning some money along the way though!

    I shot all but the first day of the Vegas shoot last month and had a great time, made lots of friends and had the honor of Steve Carmichael punching my card, split HDCP money three ways one day with a 98 and even playing all the options, I got $500 my part. You would think that at a large shoot with over 100 people, being in a three way tie for first, there would be more than $1500 for the first place guy, but then again, few played the options.


    Thanks again for your input,

    Mr. Mark
     
  14. XT=dontmiss

    XT=dontmiss TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
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    OPTIONS. Trapshooting is a hobby, nothing more. Unless, your a pro and make a living shooting, only a handful on this site. When it feels like a job for me i wont be participating anyway. Why pay to donate your money unless you hit a LUCKY Lewis, or shoot good enough to hit the 50's, or even the guaranteed purse. For me the only thing worth playing is Lewis. Granted i have missed a few thousand dollar winnings had i played more, but it's all just a gamble, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. So limit to just lewis and you'll be fine. At the Fall Handicap I shot like crap but 2 out of the 3 events i shot hit both lewis, clearing only 2 dollars more then my entry fees, had i payed the extra $25 for yardage, 50 for wolf purse, i would be out even more and for what someone else's great fortune, no ill win more money by keeping it, short yardage or not.
    Chris Gerber
     
  15. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Richard Colley: I have shot many clubs with 50 % to the jackpot or strt 50s! However, in all of these clubs, 50% went to the shooter and the other 50% stayed in the pot to keep it going! It did not go to the club?! Tom Rhoads
     
  16. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Mr. Mark, It's obvious from your statements that you have not been around trapshooting very long. There was a time that many people did play the options. As technology and equipment became batter the sport became dominated by a handful of long yardage pro handicap shooters. People got to the place where they realized that all the big boys had to do was to shoot their average and they would beat 98% of the people out there. Jump ahead 20 years and they added voice pulls.

    Now trap is no longer a game of "beating the puller" very few off speed pulls pushed up the average's even higher and in the shoots where the big name shooters do not attend it still takes a 98 in handicap to win. Not everytime mind you but more then enough for the average shooter to realize that his 94 in handicap seldom has a chance of wining anything. The game has become one of playing Lewis class purses for the average shooter and deciding what gun club serves the best shooters dinner. I have seen much of this and read about all of it.

    It's strictly a matter of reality. The average shooter has no more chance of winning a handicap then he does the lottery. As far as new shooters go? I know of no kids who pay their own way in trapshooting. The parents pay for it. Some of the big names in the game don't make all that much after expenses and most have real jobs outside shooting. There may be 3 to 5 people in america making a living off of trapshooting and another VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE that pay their way. Not make money... Just pay their way.

    So.... No you will not get any argument from me as you are 100% correct. People other then true pro's have little chance of having their shooting pay their way. Pot shooting anymore is one of the few shotgun sports where a guy can go and have fun for 5 hours and have it paid for with a couple of wins.Jeff
     
  17. rbmtrap

    rbmtrap Member

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    ATA - AMATEUR Trap Assoc.
    Amateur is pretty much defined as NOT playing for pay, in fact in many (most) sports, you lose your amateur status by accepting a cash prize. I know I have no interest in options (oh yes "option" is defined as having a choice, so if it's mandatory, it's no longer an option). I shoot trap to compete against my previous efforts, not to gamble or help pay for some else's efforts. When this sport demands more of an entry fee than present to be split among participants based on performance, I'm gone. I may be mistaken but I'm guessing it will further minimize the sport. rbmtrap
     
  18. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    You either love trapshooting or you don't. I love it enough to scrimp on everything else in my life just to keep shooting awhile longer. Others don't, some have the means to shoot all they want without it affecting their lifestyle. We all have our lots in life and do what we chose.

    Sometimes it's difficult for a successful person in life to enter a sport and not be an instant winner, if the sport doesn't hook them they probably move on to something else. Some expect recognition just for showing up and trying, I can't relate to that, I've had to work hard for everything I have and don't expect trapshooting rewards to come any easier. As far as not having a chance, I must be nuts but every shoot I go to I figure I have as good a chance as anyone in my class, yardage, or division. Just the way I'm wired, I'm a competitor. That means I have to accept the results of my best efforts whether I go home a "winner" or not. For me I always go home a winner because I gave it my best and that gives me an inner satisfaction that no amount of money or prizes can.
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Years ago one could pay for the week-end's shooting by playing the options and purses.

    I had to fight constantly at my gun club that I and 4 others started, to keep the options and purses. We even had a jackpot that paid for 25's on different trap combinations. It was a favorite, but today, folks just shoot and leave.

    I always staid it didn't cost the club a dime to list the options and purses, save the ink to print it, but if has fallen on deaf ears.

    Wyoming shooters are a particular bunch who love to play the money, but my club was not awake enough to cater to their wants. Consequently, there isn't much money to be played/won any more.

    What a shame.

    Regarding Compulsory Purses/Options: No you don't want to make any of them compulsory. There are days that I am off and know it and those days I wouls skip playing the money. Now, playing the money at the Grand is a whole different story.

    Whiz
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There appears to be some faulty logic in some of the above posts. Many shooters do not want to play the options. So how can including the options in the entry fees required by all shooters make these shooters happier?

    Many shooters who could afford to play all of the options just do not enjoy that form of gambling.

    Pat Ireland
     
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