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Why You Move Your Gun Before You See the Target.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JBrooks, Jun 2, 2008.

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  1. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    We all do it. Call for the target, no target comes out but the gun jumps. Is this good or bad? I have read different opinions but this article may shed some light on why we do it. From Foxnews.com

    "Scientist: Humans Can See Into Future
    Monday , June 02, 2008
    By Jeanna Bryner
    Humans can see into the future, says a cognitive scientist.
    It's nothing like the alleged predictive powers of Nostradamus, but we do get a glimpse of events one-tenth of a second before they occur.
    And the mechanism behind that can also explain why we are tricked by optical illusions.
    Researcher Mark Changizi of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York says it starts with a neural lag that most everyone experiences while awake.
    When light hits your retina, about one-tenth of a second goes by before the brain translates the signal into a visual perception of the world.
    Scientists already knew about the lag, yet they have debated over exactly how we compensate, with one school of thought proposing our motor system somehow modifies our movements to offset the delay.
    Changizi now says it's our visual system that has evolved to compensate for neural delays, generating images of what will occur one-tenth of a second into the future.
    That foresight keeps our view of the world in the present. It gives you enough heads-up to catch a fly ball (instead of getting socked in the face) and maneuver smoothly through a crowd."

    Evidently our brains know that target is coming out and signals to start moving the gun.

    More at the link.
     
  2. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    "We all do it. Call for the target, no target comes out but the gun jumps. Is this good or bad?"

    Sorry but NO we ALL do not do it. It's a phenomenon that's easy to cure and that should be addressed with anyone that does. No flame intended.....Bob Dodd
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Voice calls have a "built-in" 0.06 second delay? Using their numbers, does that mean what we see is only 0.04 seconds away for a thrown clay? You can notice that slight delay IF your looking for the target and it's angle first. Hap
     
  4. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Just remember boys and girls...

    "The Anticipation is always greater than the Realization"

    Curt
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I don't really have an opinion on whether moving the gun is good or bad. On one hand, moving the gun in the wrong direction of the target path makes you have to adjust. On the other, getting the mass of the gun moving may help you get to the target sooner and helping with the overall rhythm of the call and the shot.

    Conventional wisdom, not withstanding.
     
  6. Kolar Dan

    Kolar Dan Member

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    Moving before you see the bird is bad.
    Sonny
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Holding a low gun (on the house) moving before you see the target is bad. If you hold a high gun, moving before the target gets above the gun is bad.
    Sometimes I do a bad thing. When on post one, sometimes, certainly not always, as I call pull, my gun ends up moving a little to the left. I don't know why. I don't mind the hard left from post one. I think my gun just does this all by itself. I also believe my gun talks to the trap machine to make sure that if my gun prematurely moves a little to the left, the trap will throw the target to the right.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine, the late Bob Redfield, moved his gun constantly before calling for the target. He made vet and / or senior vet All American with a very unique style. Those that saw him know what I'm talking about and the rest would never believe me even if I demonstrated it for them. He said that it was easier to keep the gun in motion than to start the motion after you saw the target. It worked for him.

    Bob
     
  9. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I am guilty of jumping at the orange streak with a quick stab of the gun barrel and it is often a lost target. I haven't yet decided if I should lower my gun hold over the trap house when the sun disappears behind the clouds. It takes real discipline to wait for the target to rise above the barrel before making that move. I find a contradiction between the "Quiet Eye Theory" and the idea that you should concentrate with intensity into the zone where the target appears.
     
  10. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Why is that Sonny?
     
  11. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Never, but then when I do, I hear loss.
     
  12. fritzi93

    fritzi93 TS Member

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    I plead guilty, at least some of the time.

    It's a bad thing to do.
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I can't prove that moving the gun before I see the target is bad. I can however say that I have found that if I hold a staunch gun until I have total focus on the target my score and average go up. If I get sloppy and don't pay attention to target focus my scores and average go down.

    I have also watched several videos of different instructors(big dogs)and in almost everyone they all say to see the target or look at the target. To me that must have some significance.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. awbenz

    awbenz TS Member

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    That is the first thing Britt teaches you not to do.
     
  15. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

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    I know a couple of weeks ago I lost my 100th target by moving eyes to right and gun to the right. I have a tendency to move the gun up with my call and that is the reason I am stuck in low A class average. DevilsAdvocate had a good comment.
    Keep moving your gun and you can have a seat with me and the others who move the gun at the shootoffs and be a spectator.
     
  16. pj 999

    pj 999 TS Member

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    This is my biggest problem. Yes it is baddd!!! Some one said it is easy to cure. Please let me in on the cure, I'm serious. Thanks Paul
     
  17. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    Phil Kiner has a little drill that keeps you from moving the gun before you see the target. He has you call for the target with your eyes closed. Then you open them and look for the target. Then you break the target. It's fun to do and shows you how much time you have to spot the target and shoot it.

    Yes, moving the gun before you know the target's flight direction is a bad habit. How could it not be? If you are on post one and you start anticipating a hard left and move the gun accordingly and you draw a hard right you have to overcome inertia to chase the target. Easy to miss that way.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    PJ999 there used to be a drill that we used to find out if you are moving to soon for sure it requires help from a friend. You go to a field that is not is use at the moment. Have your friend pull for you and you don't call for the target he gives you the target at his discretion. The first time I did this I ran 75 straight and had never done that before.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Wait'll you get old like me. I'm lucky if I get the gun moving before the target peaks and drops.
    '
    Buz
     
  20. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I fear it was I that said that, PJ999. My cure is to control the release button and work with the person having the problem. We'll go to an unused trap and he gets to shoot from wherever he wants but I get to release slow, really slow, not at all, or a few on time. The better he gets at controlling the gun, the more good pulls he gets but then I throw in a no bird or obviously slow bird just enough to work like a slap in the face. Trust me, if someone deals with you that way, you'll quickly see how badly you are waggling the gun all around. I had a friend in the '70s do that with me and I've never had a relapse since. I do plenty of other stupid stuff but I can usually take slow or irregular pulls all day long without waving the muzzle around as if pretending to be Betty Crocker.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
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