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Why will gun dealers not accept a gun from me?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bodybuilder, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. bodybuilder

    bodybuilder TS Member

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    I have sold probably 20 guns on this site with never a problem until now. I sold an 1100 to a fellow in another state so I packaged it up like I always do put a copy of my drivers license with it and sent it to an FFL dealer. The dealer sent it back saying he could only accept it from another FFL holder. The law says I can send any long gun to an FFL dealer. If I am wrong please correct me. But I feel sorry for the buyer because 2 weeks later he still does not have his gun. I just got it back and I will take it to a dealer and have it resent but I never had this problem before.
     
  2. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The guy you sent it to don't know the laws ... Have an FFL send it and be done with it so you don't waste your time trying to educate this guy ... There is no law that says he cannot accept it from you ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  3. slayer

    slayer Well-Known Member

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    Right has to go TO an ffl, but can be sent by private owner. At least here in MI. Bill
     
  4. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    It is up to the dealer, but the dealer SHOULD inform the transferee of any SPECIAL requirements before the firearm is sent.

    Given the circumstances, either the buyer or the dealer that wouldn't accept it should cover the initial shipping cost and the return shipping cost if both failed to inform you that it needed to be sent FROM a FFL.

    When I sell guns (not that I sell many, probably 1 to 2 a year on average), I refuse to ship FROM a dealer. Federal law doesn't require it, and I'm not aware of any state law that does either. I would need to add at least an extra $50 to the cost of the gun to cover my time and added expense to drive 20 minutes across town, pay the dealer for the transfer, pay the dealer for any extra shipping charges, and drive home again. Or I can box it myself, ship it myself, drive 5 minutes to the Fedex hub, and be done with it.

    If a buyer can't find a dealer that will accept a transfer from a private individual, I'll find another buyer.
     
  5. kenf

    kenf Active Member

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    The only advantage to shipping from a ffl is when selling a handgun. They can send them USPS Priority vs overnight through UPS/Fedex.
     
  6. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I think Kalifornia is an exception...
     
  7. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Another thought.

    If you ship FROM a dealer, it will make any insurance claims for loss or damage an absolute nightmare.

    Since the dealer, and not you, is the shipper of record, the carrier WILL NOT even talk to you. The dealer will have to do all the leg work for any insurance claims.

    And I know of NO dealer who is more doggedly persistent and thorough when it comes to insurance claims than I am. I've met some resistance in the past regarding insurance claims in the past with USPS and Fedex, but in the end, knock on wood, I always prevailed.

    I went through this when I made the mistake of shipping a barrel Fedex through Gunbroker. You get a little cheaper rate doing this. I had to file an insurance claim, but since Gunbroker was the actual shipper of record, everything had to go through them, and that was like getting teeth pulled. I eventually made out OK, but it took twice as long as it should have, and twice as many phone calls, because if you aren't the actual shipper of record, you add a whole extra level of BS when it comes to insurance claims.
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Try to understand his concerns. It's relatively easy to launder a stolen gun by simply shipping it to a dealer and providing false ownership. It it turns up stolen the dealer is investigated by the ATF and they will try to stop the buck there. It can be interesting for the receiving dealer!!
     
  9. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    BigM-Perazzi- IDK about handguns (don't shoot them, so I've never sold one), but shipping long guns to CA is no more of an issue than any other state.

    It always frustrates me when I see someone say "No sales to CA" (and I don't even live in CA) esp when you're talking about target grade shotguns. This just means the seller is lazy or stupid. It is no different shipping a long gun (with the exception of "assault weapons", which I also don't shoot, so I've never sold one) to CA than it is in any other state. Anyone with a 6th grade level of reading comprehension can take 5 minutes, read the CA laws on their website, and see for themselves that there is no difference.

    In fact, its actually a little EASIER for a private individual to ship a long gun to CA than it is for a FFL dealer to ship a long gun to CA.
     
  10. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    oleolliedawg- Shipping FROM a FFL is going to provide NO additional level of certainty that the gun isn't stolen.

    The shipping FFL isn't going to do any research to that effect, they are going to log the gun in, box it up, and ship it out the door.

    If the seller wants to give the shipping FFL a fake driver's license, they're just as much in the wind whether the gun came through the dealer or through the private individual.
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    If that happened to me, I suggest the man find another dealer I could send FFL to FFL when resent.

    HAP
     
  12. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    When I sell guns part of the terms of sale is that if the buyer's receiving FFL demands receipt from an FFL, then the extra money for the transfer to my local dealer is added to the price of the sale.
    But some dealers just want it that way.
    Maybe the dealers are conspiring to get more money for these transfers?
    dju
     
  13. docbombay

    docbombay Well known trouble maker

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    I agree with skeet man about shipping shotguns to California.

    I recently sold Kim Z here on the web my old Ljutic mono gun #23. Sent via USPS to his designated FFL contact in Orange County. Was a piece of cake. No problems what-so-ever.

    All those that exclude CA residents from their potential list of customers when selling trap guns just don't know that it is no different then shipping these guns anywhere else.

    Doc
     
  14. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    It's pretty hard to fault a dealer for deciding to protect himself by only accepting firearms from another FFL. When the ATF comes by to inspect his books it's his butt if something is not right. You can ask the sender to include a copy of his drivers license but how do you know for sure that it is actually HIS drivers license? Sometimes the sender will "forget" to send a photo copy of his DL causing more hassle for the dealer. He has a firearm in his shop he can't log in because he doesn't have the required info to fill in the blanks.

    Most of the time everything is on the up and up but all it takes is one time and you the receiving dealer is the one who has to deal with the ATF. Sure the sender can supply false ID to his local FFL but the receiving FFL is in the clear because his bound book shows he received a firearm from a licensed dealer which he can verify thru the ATF web site before he agrees to receive it.

    The law allows a dealer to accept a firearm shipped to him from and individual but he must be able to correctly record who and where it came from. Before you condemn someone for being extra careful put yourself in their shoes. Having said all that I will accept shipments from individuals with proper ID (sent before the gun) unless something doesn't seem right.
     
  15. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Doc- On the plus side, it makes it that much easier for those who ARE willing to ship to CA, since they have a HUGE market available to them that others decide not to participate in through ignorance.

    CCW1911- "He has a firearm in his shop he can't log in because he doesn't have the required info to fill in the blanks."

    Not true. I've sold a few guns in the past month or two (liquidating a collection to buy a higher end gun). I purposely DID NOT send my DL with ANY of these firearms. Call me paranoid, but it doesn't give me a good feeling having my DL floating around there unnecessarily. Only one dealer requested a copy, all the others I never heard a peep from. If a dealer or buyer requests it, I'll send it, but if not, I don't.
     
  16. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line, the guy has a stupid dealer.

    He needs to find another. Gunbroker has a list of dealers who will accept shipments. Look on their site. (I found a very reasonable one on there.

    HM
     
  17. wackdux

    wackdux TS Member

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    Sold 20 guns? Sounds like you are a dealer WHY DON'T YOU HAVE AN FFL?
     
  18. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Skeet, your correct. It's only the ffl shipping to Kalif that has to procure the Kalof paperwork first....
     
  19. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    OK, so stand by for and education.....I speak from the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia...most dealers in this state will not accept a PP to FFL transfer. Some will but they charge a heavy surplus for doing so. My usual dealer, California Gun Girls AKA Oak Tree Gun Club will not accept a PP to FFL transfer period. However, Cobra Tactical located just 6 miles north of there will, but it will cost you about $125 including the DROS fee. The issue is not federal law but rather state tax, more specifically, state sales tax. FFL to FFL requires that sales tax be paid. PP to FFL does not but, the receiving dealer runs the risk of entering a gun into inventory that may not pass the DROS process. Or he may run afoul of the state tax franchise board if the sale is determined to actually be other than a private party transfer. In which case, he's out some cash and stuck with a gun he may not be able to send back or hand over to the client. Certain guns may not be imported into the state at all but that's a whole other deal.
     
  20. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    There are some issues shipping a gun into CA. Even though the FFL dealer is a bonafide BATFE recognized dealer, he, for some unknown reason to me, may not be recognized by the CADOJ in Sacramento.

    I was one of the first to be approved by the CADOJ to ship guns into CA.

    That state initiated a law several years ago stating it was a felony by ME or anyone to ship a gun into CA without having their approval first. If that legislation has not been changed, this they still consider it illegal.

    My buddies here in law enforcement kinda laughed about their, CA's, law because the assistant chief asked if they'd come out here to SD and arrest me. Probably not, and furthermore they had no jurisdiction here anyway.

    I jump through the hoops to ship out there simply because that state tries its damndest to prevent guns from coming in.

    WW
     
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