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Why NOT look at the bead(s)?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by brent375hh, Nov 17, 2009.

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  1. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    It seems that the advice of most good shooters is to only use the beads to check gun mount, then forget about them.

    Coming from HP (service) rifle and pistol shooting, the only way to shoot well with iron sights is to focus hard on the front sight and let the target be a blurry black dot.

    My scores have been sinking trying to ignore the stacked beads. Is there anyone out there that has success with focusing on the front bead and moving the gun to the blurry bird, floating a gap of light and pulling the trigger, or is that a surefire losing proposition?

    Thanks
    Brent Hall
     
  2. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question. I know if you are already focused on the bird & then go back to the bead the tendency is to stop the swing but I have never heard any discussion of starting with the bead & staying with it........I'm sure you will get lots of help with this!
     
  3. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    Brent,

    I do not have a lot of handgun experience. But consider this: If that hand gun target was about to take flight at 40+ MPH on an unknown angle, would you rather see a blurry set of sites or a blurry target. In trap shooting you have to get a clear picture of the bird and where it is going. For best results you also need a good sense of depth perception. You can not do either if you are focusing on the sites. Probably will get varying opinions but this is my take on your question.

    Hope it helps at least a little. Marc
     
  4. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    The only purpose of the beads is to make sure your gun is mounted correctly and not canted. Yes pistol, rifle shooting is different from shotgun. When you master the shotgun, you will find you are not even aware of where your barrel is when you break the bird. Shotgun shooting is instintive, whereas pistol and rifle is precision shooting. When the shotgun fits you and you have it mounted correctly the same time every time, you will find you can break the birds with your full focus and concentration on the target. Just the opposite of pistol shooting, where you focus on the front sight. Your mind will calculate distance, speed, lead and when to pull the trigger, faster than you can blink and you won't even be aware of it.
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    If it is so "instinctive", why are there so few 27 yarders that average over 91%?
     
  6. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    If you have a blurry target then you have just experienced what I imagine it to be like when you are 80 plus years old and a Sr. Vet.

    Target Target Target..........beads stop the swing.

    Lyle
     
  7. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Cause they can't hit nothin'.
     
  8. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me the 27 yarder had to hit more than most others or they would not be at the 27. Marc
     
  9. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Marc pretty much has it right. Basically in target shooting, you focus on the target, move front sight to target, refocus on sight. Your gun moves the eye. With shotguns, you focus on front sight for gun mount, then move focus out to a moving target. Your eyes move the gun. Wayne
     
  10. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    When you have extremely high targets, do you make an attempt to get above the birds when you pull off the shot, or do you do it instinctively?
     
  11. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    Without trying to derail my own thread, perhaps there are 27 yard shooters who are proud to be there that could have taken a reduction but have not.

    My "instict" lately is to try to look at the bird, but sometimes my gun does not follow. I can close my eyes, mount the gun and look at a perfect set of beads. However, on a slight angle, especially left, sometimes my eyes follow the bird, I pull the trigger only to see that the beads are no longer aligned because my head looked away from the rib to the bird. I have not shot a 25 ever since I tried ignoring the beads to be an instictive shooter.

    If going through a slump to be a better shooter is the only way to go, then that is the route I will proceed with.
     
  12. Allen-MX8

    Allen-MX8 Member

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    I think Rick Barker sums it up correctly.

    Good Luck.

    Allen
     
  13. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    brent375hh

    It sounds as if your head is coming off the gun. Could be a gun fit problem?? Mounting the gun in closer to your center will help keep your head on the gun for right angles if you are a right hander. When I miss a slight angle, and I often do, it is because I have misread it as a straightaway and shot straight at it.

    Any 27yd shooter had to earn his way there. If he wants to stay there, who does it hurt? Their scores would certainly improve if they moved up. I for one prefer they stay at the 27 so that I may have a competitive chance. Move them closer and look out.

    Marc
     
  14. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I'm just mess'n with ya. This has been beat to death on TS.com. I think you have to see some barrel to bird, or bead to bird relationship to create a "lead". Any of the big dog tapes refer to it in some way or the other. Phil Kiner explains it pretty good. Primary focus on bird, soft focus on bead. What is often called "instinctive", is actually muscle memory and trained reaction from practice and multiple exposures to various shooting situations. Closer the distance to the target, easier to learn. Thats my theory and I'm sticking with it.
     
  15. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    Setterman,

    Stated about as well as I have ever heard.

    Thanks, Marc
     
  16. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Moving target. Can't look at something stationary and expect to get out in front of a 40+ MPH, -5" target and expect to hit it consistently. Wrong focus for trapshooting. You must see the target as clearly as you can to be good. Never focus on the beads unless you are working on your personal gun fit. After that's right just focus on the target(s).

    There is no better way to break clay targets.
     
  17. XP100

    XP100 Well-Known Member

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    I am among the few that focus on the front sight and when it looks right ( on the bird) I pull the trigger. I unfortunately don't have a dominate eye and shoot one eyed. Maybe that is why I aim the gun. I am not one of the best shooters but I still manage to average in the mid 90's by looking at the beads.
     
  18. X Trap 2

    X Trap 2 TS Member

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    Well I am surprised that it was not mentioned that you want the gun to shoot where you are looking. Keep your focus on where the bird is going and when you get the correct lead for the angle thrown pull the trigger. Dead bird.

    As long as the gun is shooting where you are looking the mount is OK. Just do it the same way every time. Now that is where the work comes into play. If you feel as though you did not mount the gun the same way and you decide to go ahead and call pull, the bird is missed most of the time. I know, because I sometimes mount nine and it does not feel right and I think to myself that it is close enough....WRONG. Lost! I knew better but did not want to cause a hassle and have to remount and disrupt the harmony of the shoot. At times you must remount or be ready to accept the Lost call.

    I check the beads for alignment when I mount the gun but then shoot off the end of the barrel. My sights do not line up good but the gun shoots where I am looking. Ray....
     
  19. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Now do you see why the pattern needs to be about 750 sq in, and the target is only about 6-10.
     
  20. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    If the gun fits, it will shoot where you are looking, providing you don't have a bad barrel. If you are pulling away from the gun, either you have a bad fit (even if you think you have a good one), you have a bad style (keeping your head stationary on the stock, or there could be a flinch and you don't even know it. The instintive part of shooting is trusting your relexes and brain to make the necessary calculations and gun movement to smoke the bird and you are often times surpised when it happens, because it happens so quick. A person can shoot a decent or very high score sighting down the barrel and checking the beads, but it is a lot more work. As long as you smack the bird just before or as it levels out, fine, but this style of shooting causes real problems when shooting in the wind.
     
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