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Why not a Trap "Pro Tour"???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by lumper, Aug 9, 2007.

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  1. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Personally I would like to see all money taken out of the sport. If people want to bet let them bet on the side back behind the line ... let them use bookies.

    Take the money out of the sport though and watch what could happen ... I think it would only improve the sport.
     
  2. ChetH

    ChetH Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Hi,


    More than likely you belong to the Amateur Trapshooting Association. When the association was formed trapshooting was dominated by shooters in the employ of the various ammunition, powder, and gun companies. These folks were regarded as professionals and the rest of us were amateurs. Over the years they left the scene and were replaced by people more adept at marketing and public relations.

    It took many years for the ATA to respond to this change. If you look at an older average book, you will see shooters split into three categories, ladies, men, and industrial representatives. Those in the industrial representative category were precluded from competing against the rest of us. They could not play any options; they could only win trophies in their category.

    The industrial representative category has now gone away in recognition of the decline in the general shooting ability of the manufactures’ employees. In their place has come the ‘big dogs’, shooters who make a living shooting and teaching others to shoot. While they are without a doubt professionals, the word's meaning has drifted.

    Should they compete separately from the rest of us? You could argue that they should. There would be issues.

    How would you fund the purses?

    How would you identify the professionals? Would they self nominate? Could you force them to join a professional circuit?

    chet
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    chet- By others definitions I have to be a professional. Last Sunday I won two silver dollars shooting. Retail value about $30. I will sign up as one of the Pros. You could pay a little money and watch me shoot. You would most likely see some things you have never seen before.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Chet ... if you took the money out of the sport you would not have to worry about funding the purses. If a person wanted to compete for a purse than they would be a pro and thusly the rest of your questions are now answered.
     
  5. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Pat ... was that a prize like a belt buckle would have been or was that like a Lewis class prize?
     
  6. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Why not if you compete for money your a pro and if you compete for the thrill of competition and the agony of defeat than your an armature always spinning with an electric charge of competition..
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    lumper- No they were US Minted Silver Dollars one made in 1922 the other minted in 1926. One for singles (99, three way flip) and the other for class A doubles (94). Winning this money makes me a Professional.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    All that is needed is a Master Class for shooters with handicap averages over 92. Because there are realatively few of them, take 10% out of all the other purses and put in the Master Class. However, make these shooters squad together so that the rest of us can watch them compete head to head. It would be well worth the 10% to watch them shoot together and get them out of the regular events.
     
  9. k80cmbo

    k80cmbo TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    The first thing that would have to change is the sissy a$$ 2 hole targets.How long would a pro tour last with the targets that we have today?There will never be any real money in this sport.It's to easy.Watch on Wednesday and see how many 200's are in the lower classes.
     
  10. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    I'm no expert on the specifics between amateur and professional athletes (I might be going a little far to refer to trap shooters as athletes so I’ll change that to participants). But let me give you my perspective. ALL money earned in trap shooting is money that has been earned on a wager or option. ALL money earned comes out of the pockets of those that you’re shooting with. Professional sports on the other hand are paid a purse that is provided by the promoter or sponsor of the event. Trust me on this if Tiger Woods derived his money from a percentage of bets with fellow golfers he’d still be making some money, but he wouldn’t be touring the world in a private yacht and jet and he wouldn’t be married to a Swedish swimsuit model. There is a big difference between purse money and money from options in trap. So why is it that money is pumped into those sports and not trap? Simple, trap is in no way a spectator sport and unless sports fans start enjoying the thought of paint drying, it never will be. Keep in mind that the only reason money is pumped into PRO sports is for the advertisement benefit and I’m not talking about advertising to the participants, I’m talking about spectators. So as soon as we have 40000 spectators willing to spend an average of 25buck each and ABC wide world of sports willing to spend a couple of mil on the TV rights so they can in turn sell advertisement to Budweiser, Ford and Viagra. Which in turn would prompt them to attract the best of the best so the promoter puts up a ½ mil for first and pays good money through the top 20. Then all the gun, ammo, shooting glasses and accessory companies along with outside companies start hiring the shooters so they get in on the advertising action. TRAP SHOOTING WILL BE AN AMATURE SPORT!
     
  11. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    Why not a Trap

    The cost of sponsoring any kind of tour is major bucks for the sponsor(s). All you have to do is look at the PBA (bowlers). They went from being on ABC on Saturdays, to now being on ESPN on Sunday afternoon. They went from being sponsored by the major beer brewers like Budweiser, to the likes of Denny's. The money has really dried up. The PBA has done everything from juicing the lanes, to now having outside tournaments in 100 degree weather (try getting your thumb out of the ball when it's that hot and humid!). The women's tour bellied up a few years ago, because of lack of sponsorship. The same will probably happen to the men's tour in the future.

    When people were using hard rubber balls, they really looked up to the likes of Earl Anthony, Dick Weber, etc. Now there are guys in leagues averaging 220+ and bowling a couple of night a week. They've become as good as the pros. Newspapers don't publish anything but 800 series. It wasn't that many years ago when a 700 was news.

    I can't remember the last time the shooting shows featured trap shooters. Most of those are only interested in IPSC, and guys shooting exotic 1911's, or programs for tricking out your AR-15. How many people do the likes of Tom Knapp draw for his shooting. I don't think that someone breaking 95 from the 27 yard line will draw any spectators but the real shooters. Even the National Shooting Teams have to scramble for sponsors; and didn't the Winter Olympics do away with the biathlon?

    There's also a lot of political correctness even with the gun companies. Wasn't it Bill Ruger who agreed with the high cap magazine ban in 1994?

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  12. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Lumper


    There is no money to take out of the sport because there is no mandatory purse or option money allowed. All purse and option money is voluntary.


    Have you ever shot registered trap.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  13. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Chet,et al,The Industry Class in the 70's was nothing like a Pro class. It was all the Industry Reps.=Salesmen who MOST couldn't hit a bull in the rump with a bass fiddle.There were exceptions like D. Lee Braun, Dick Baldwin, you know who I mean. The real Pro's were NOT in Industry Class.They were classed just like the rest of us and played the money and shot for a living. They may have Represented a certain Co. but were NOT full time employees working at the factory or on the road as sales reps.They were sponsored with shells, entry fees,(had to play their own options),privledged parking spots,guns or at least reduced prices for their equipment and such. Jealous? Shoot the scores and YOU could have cashed in too.Want them eliminated? Do you think if Kay, Harlan, Ricky, and such weren't around your 96 from the 21 will win the Grand since they can break 99's or 100's in 27 yd hdcp? Go fish!!! Your 47x50 will win you cash in the 50's options? Fish some more. I got a news flash for you whiners, BREAK the Score and get in THEIR pocket! Give me a break!
     
  14. joshif

    joshif TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    BTW< the 80's were NOT the Heyday! That's when the ATA started down the tubes.They softened the targets to get the wussies to shoot after the shot prices in the late 70's went to 22+ a bag.So many people quit shooting, the ATA had to come up with something to bring up the attendance. Thus the theory of 2 hole 48 yd.targets and a shmoe shooting a decent score that he would not have otherwise shot under the 3 hole 50 yd rule.Thus keeping him coming back. The problem with that is you can't never go back! I feel the mid 70's were the Heyday and there was more blood sucking,head banging competition for the money that was there for a good score.Of which there were fewer ties and your money wasn't chewed up! Soft targets make for a feel good atmosphere with 150 98's in the hdcp program but 3 hole 50 yd targets make you feel better when you cash in with only 3 or 4 and you're one of them and it's high!
     
  15. Alpha_Three_Niner

    Alpha_Three_Niner TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    I think it would be great to set up a pro tour. I'm a firm believer that it can be done. However, I don't believe that any of the disciplines can do it on their own. I really like the concept of the World All Around that Scott Robertson organized earlier this year. Lot's of money... only the best shooters... and many spectators. Unfortunately, the event was shunned by the Trap Gods. To pull off a pro tour in any sport or discipline, the event must be both spectator and television friendly. Additionally, if a sponsor doesn't get visibility for his product, he won't dance.
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    The TV series (ESPN I believe) that paired top trap shooters with entertainment personalities was a flop. Trap is fun to shoot but dull to watch.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Conley and Pat have it right. sjponsors are the only place money can come frame as far as I see, and no one will pay to put on such a dull event.

    Lots of people who don't race watch Nascar. Sponsors pay big money to get their name exposed on the cars & drivers.

    HOw many non shooters would watch people shooting for more than 5 minutes?

    HM
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Joe- What you suggested is done several times each year with the exception of requiring nonconforming ATA targets.

    toml2- Your idea would require as the first step locating a producer who would put up quite a bit of investment money with the hope he could sell the program to both a Television syndicate and sponsors. I have no idea about the costs of developing such a documentary but I would guess $250,000 would not finish the job. Based on the failure of last national televised trap shooting program, selling the documentary would be very difficult.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Lets get real, shooting clay targers is about as exciting to the spectator as watching the grass die in Sparta!

    There will never be a pro-tour for: Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays or any other shooting sport. First off political correctness would never allow it, and second unless BIG CORPORTATIONS are making a $$$$$$ there is not market for a PRO Tour! No market no money to pay the PROS!

    Ronbo
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Why not a Trap

    Joe- The high gun purse at the Grand is pretty close to what you are looking for. The shoot last month at Vegas was one.

    Pat Ireland
     
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