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Why not a 29 yard line at Grand?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bisi, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Why can't they add a 29 or 30 yard line at Sparta for the Grand. I'm not talking about adding yardage to all the traps just a couple of banks. Now a guy or gal who breaks a 98 on the first day of Grand from the 27 stays there. Move em back just for the Grand. Put the bank out front of the vendors. It would give the sport a way to highlight your best shooters. This would be a place of honor to shoot. I could see myself walking to that bank to see which shooters are shooting from the 29 or 30. "Let's go see if any, or which big dog has made it to the 30 yet." It would give the shell people and gun people a way to promote their products also. "Tony Trapshooter, shot our shells and was the first to make it to the 30. Now if Tony is shooting our shells from the 30 shouldn't you be using our shells?".

    You don't even have to pour concrete, put a fiberglass or plywood pad and take it up at the end of the Grand. I was looking at RJ Stuart's data and just during prelim week there were 243 (If I counted right) punches from the 27. Leo received 6.5 yards during prelim week alone. I'm not advocating that ever club add extra yardage, just Sparta for the Grand. It is SUPPOSE TO BE A HANDICAP EVENT!

    I just think it would add a little excitement and some newness to the sport. Try it 1 year, if the shooters don't like it or if it hurts attendance, go back to the way it is now.

    After the Grand they go back to the 27.

    Flame away and tell why it can't be done.
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    It can't be done, cause the 27 yarders are shooting for the same money everyone else is. Why are ya gonna penalize them?
     
  3. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Hippie, what does the term "handicap" mean in your book? You wrote - "Why are ya gonna penalize them?" Why are ya gonna penalize them? If you are on any yardage now, shorter than the 27 then you are penalizing them now, so what is your point?
     
  4. brigade

    brigade TS Member

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    Why not shoot 7/8oz. for all Handicap???? Ed
     
  5. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Bisi, I guess I'm kinda thick headed at times, but tell me how I am penalizing a 27 yarder now, if I am on any yardage shorter than the 27. I must be missing something here.

    Like I said, why do ya just want to penalize the 27 yarder? How about the 26 and half yarder that shoots a good score and gets punched past the 27? ---Oh, and what is your point?
     
  6. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Handicap is all about penalizing somebody. That is why there are different yardages. By having a handicap event we have already made the decision to handicap (penalize)some shooters, now we are just discussing to what degree. A 26 yardliner who shoots a score getting more than a yard will be pushed back beyond the 27 at the Grand.

    If you don't want to penalize anybody lets all shoot from the same yardage. We can have the Clay Target Championship from the 16 like we do now, then put everybody on the 27 yard line and call it the long yardage championship.

    The whole idea behind a "handicap" event is to penalize somebody.

    I'm only talking about doing this at the Grand, not you local club.
     
  7. Herbert

    Herbert TS Member

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    I think its agreat idea, for the Grand only. For the options just include them as 27 yarders. May be nice to have longer yardage, 28-30, trophies. I think its completely possible. I hope the ATA looks into this....
    Herbert
     
  8. stogie

    stogie TS Member

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    Why compete with the Pro's.anyway. They should have their own events at all shoots. What are the odds of a non Pro winning anything big. They should be shooting 410 guage to give the rest of us a chance to win something.
     
  9. John55

    John55 Active Member

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    I don't think a 29yd line will change things all that much, the top shooters are just way too good. Make it 35yds and then the average shooter just might have a chance now and then. Going to lighter payloads handicaps everyone, and most of us don't need further handicaps! Give the average shooter a legitimate chance to win and he will show up and shoot. Lots of reasons why our game is not growing, or even holding it's own. I know several local shooters who quit trap over 10yrs ago and went to sporting clays. Why? A more social atmosphere, different course layouts that offer more variety of shots and most importantly...a lot more FUN.
     
  10. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    How about we just and start shooting the .410 Bore for trap. The scores would be really low and Leo would still win.

    Ronbo
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I believe Kiner suggested something like this. They have the fields already that they could do this on. I believe he also suggested a one or two year trial at the Grand only.

    Don
     
  12. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    When the best shooter in my state says there should be a Pro-class or AAAA in handi-cap, we must agree there is something wrong. Once we admit there is is a problem, The only question is the remedy? The only money in the sport is furnished by the frequent flyers who think they can win on any given day. This is why casinos make money & bettors lose.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  13. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Who won the GAH last year and what was his yardage? Just a thought. Seems that people only look for a "cure" when a 27 yarder wins.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This could physically be done at the Grand. How would you determine who would get to shoot past the 27 yard line? I am not competitive from the 27 but if we were to use the punched I have been awarded this year, I would be on the 28.5 yard line. That would make a non competitive 27 yard shooter less than non competitive. When one shoots 5,000 handicap targets each year, they get lucky a few times.

    Also, if such a change is good for the Grand, why would it not be good for the small local shoots? Many more registered targets are shot at small local shoots than are shot at the Grand and the satellite Grands. If we are interested in growing, our attention should be directed at the small local shoots, not the large shoots.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you get a punch when shooting from the 27 yard line, the next time you compete you have to use a 20 guage gun. You get a punch with the 20 guage and you shoot a 28 guage next time. Get a punch using the 28 guage, you graduate to the 410 guage from the 27 yard line. The ultimate challenge. HMB
     
  16. washandwear

    washandwear Member

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    Hi

    Too much $ for so few!

    Regards

    W&W
     
  17. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Pat, I was thinking that you would only get moved back from yardage earned at the Grand. Everybody would start at their normal yardage the first handicap event of the Grand. Even if somebody got 10 honorary yards during the year they would start the Grand on the 27, only if they earned yardage during the Grand would they move back beyond the 27.

    Yes, the good shooters are still going to win. I'm looking at this as a "marketing" gimic for the Grand and the ATA. A way to put a little more life/excitement into our sport. Who would be the first to the 29, or 30? Put the traps with the extra yardage in front of the main vendor line. The vendors this year were complaining about lack of traffic. Would you walk down a couple of days into the Grand to see who was on the 28, 29, or if anybody had made it to the 30 yet? I know I would. I would like to see who was there and if the addtional yardage had any effect on how they were breaking birds or not.

    I know several 27 yardshooters who didn't attend the Grand this year because they don't think they can compete against the Big Dogs. Guys like that might come back to the GAH on the last day thinking their competition then will be on the 29 yard line.

    It could also give the gun and shell people something to promote. They could advertise their customer as being the first to the 30 and he was shooting our shells.
     
  18. K80433SC

    K80433SC Member

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    Admittedly -- there have been some short-yardage shooters who've won the GAH in my recent memory.

    However -- for the most part, the 27-yarders have won it more often, and continue to win the vast majority of larger tournaments.

    The "why" is quite simply because they are the better shooters in the discipline of handicap. That is WHY they shoot from the 27-yard line. No real mystery there...........

    For those who would propose a method to further handicap the "fence" shooters, my FIRST suggestion would be to spend more time working on your own handicap game.

    Let's be honest with ourselves here. The guys who shoot at 27 yards have gotten there by breaking MORE targets at shorter yardages ; MORE often than the rest of the field of competitors. They did not start at the 27-yard line. At some point in their earlier shooting careers, they also shot at the 20, the 21, the 22, etc.

    These shooters found a way to keep moving back, and have now attained the pinnacle of ATA handicap yardage. Credit them with hard work, discipline & dedication to excellence ; don't look for ways to "penalize" them for achieving a level of success that YOU have not been able to find within yourself.

    I also disagree 100% with the idea that the purpose of handicap yardage is to PENALIZE anyone. The reason we have handicap is to place trapshooters at a distance from the trap machine that is indicative of their respective shooting ability. Again -- if YOUR respective yardage is truly indicative of YOUR personal shooting ability, but is less than 27 yards - then YOU need to do some more work at your own game.

    Also - trapshooting is a 12-gauge shooting sport. We all know the expense involved in purchasing / modifying a high end trap gun. To even suggest the use of different gauges is a bit "off the wall" and "grasping at straws", in the attempt to lend credence to the already-weak argument for further handicapping the better competitors.

    What would the argument be then ? OH......"so & so" has an advantage over me, because he/she has a super duper modified 20 gauge "BER-KRIE-ZZI" shotgun that was paid for by his /her sponsor? Don't you feel better knowing that you can compete with the SAME guns that the "big dogs" currently use, even though THEY shoot them much better than YOU do?

    Face the sad facts, boys............

    The "big dogs" are gonna' whup your collective a$$es on most given days. They've done it for years ; they'll be doing it at the next large tournament ; they'll be doing it for YEARS to come. And WHY ? Because they are BETTER than you at the same game - pure and simple.

    My son was a pretty fair shot in his teenage days ; he even won our State Junior 16-yd. title in 1994. I always told him this : "to win a major shooting event, you have got to have your BEST day on THAT day - and hope that EVERYONE ELSE makes (at least) one mistake".

    It's all about focus, hard work, discipline and dedication to excellence. If you want to win, start thinking and acting like a winner. And the FIRST step toward improving yourself is to realize and admit that you probably have spent more time & energy whining and conjuring up ways to penalize those who have found the way to win, than you have actually spent on improving yourself.

    Just the opinions of a medicocre (at best) 22.5-yard trapshooter.........
     
  19. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    LISTEN!!!! Who are we going to change for and WHO are we kidding, If your 16yd average is D class, C class, B class, and A class. Your chances of winning a major handicap event is about zero unless it is "your day". People who know how to shoot are just like people who know how to golf. They do not send Tiger woods down a different [harder] course. If you cannot average 97 plus from the 16 how will you be able to compete if you step back. YOU CAN'T!!! You have options though, Stick with 16yd and Doubles where you can shoot with your class, shoot in a trap league where the only worry is how cold the beer is when your done, or keep your fat Ace on the couch at home repeating oh whoa is me..........


    GS

    P.S. I may not like it either, but at least I am not in denial about how hard it is to win at the top level
     
  20. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    K80433SC

    Do you think you would improve with free guns of your choice, all the free custom work you wanted, all the free ammunition you could shoot and no job so you could travel to every shoot you wanted?
     
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