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Why No ATA Compulsory Purses

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by K005, Sep 29, 2010.

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  1. K005

    K005 Member

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    I was just looking at the Missouri Fall Handicap shoot program and saw several handicap events with compulsory purses. Then I noticed they were non-registered. So why doesn't the ATA allow compulsory purses? I can see why not having them for state, zone or grand shoots, but why not for an ordinary shoot. No one is forcing you to enter.

    Bob K.
     
  2. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    The Grand tried mandatory purses many years ago and it was not popular, to say the least.
     
  3. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    How many people play Lewis? Less than half?
     
  4. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Bob K.,

    You need to re-read the rules. The only rule against compulsory purses is for tournaments where there are ATA trophies provided or ATA-provided added money (Section VIII, A).

    The Missouri Fall Handicap could have a compulsory purse in a registered event, if they wanted to do that. The preliminary handicap event at the Golden West Grand has a compulsory purse.

    I think that shoot management typically avoids compulsory purses because the majority of shooters don't want them.
     
  5. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    That's how the fairy skeetie types destroyed participation in their sport.

    Why would we want to repeat that here?
     
  6. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I understand that Rob Taylor is advocating compulsory purses for the shoots at the KTA homegrounds in Kansas. That's what I heard anyway. I meant to check into that to see if it was true or not, but I keep forgetting to do it.
     
  7. Don Steele

    Don Steele Well-Known Member

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    Because they are a Bad Idea.
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    V10 is correct. The rules prohibit compulsory purses in any tournament where ATA trophies or ATA added money is provided. It is important to notice the term tournament is used, not event.

    In a way, my small local club does have a compulsory purse. Our entry fee for ATA shoots is $15/100 and we take out $1 of this fee and add it to a Lewis purse that combines the singles and handicap scores. This makes the Lewis purse automatic or compulsory.

    I wish some clubs would begin using the old compulsory Grasshopper Purse. This is the only purse where everyone who enters is a winner.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    Compulsory purses would drive the last nail in the ATA coffin. You want to see shoot attendance tank just just go for it. 99% of ATA shooters never win anything, that's why they are so hung up on the meaningless average. And if you charge them more to lose than they already pay even the holy average will not sustain them.

    Simple Cons 101 - slip the mark something worthless and tell him that he can't live without it. Make him think it has meaning. Enshrine the worthless thing in a published list with the mark's name in it. Cry, "Lookie, lookie!!" and take his money.
     
  10. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    recurvy, rob is the president of the KTA, which is run by a board of directors, who voted for the purses, me included, good idea, bad idea, we will see. It was the only way we could give GOOD prizes. It has was that way in the 70's at the KTA.Back when targets were something in the neighborhood of 10 bucks a hundred it cost 45 to shoot the handicaps. They gave away 16000 worth of prizes. our prizes were worth more than that this year. I guess it comes down to having good prizes to draw shooters or just throwing targets, wish i knew the answer.Catagory shooters didn't have to play the purses, what gets me is when you just give trophys people complain about not having anything to shoot for, then when you do they complain when it costs more. mark crist
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how that works, Mark. Why should the purses result in better prizes (unless it draws more shooters)?

    Neil
     
  12. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    that was the idea neil, to draw more shooters. we had guns and more guns we gave away,
     
  13. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    Optional entry for purses satisfies the hot shot, the guy who just likes to see the ink ball and the gun club. Targets in the air should be the goal, not enriching the few who would pick the pockets of the folks who just like to shoot.
     
  14. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    the theory was if you give enough prizes decent shooters will have a chance too,
     
  15. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    "fairy skeetie types"

    Sounds like someone has a bad attitude.

    Last time I checked I thought we were all on the same team......

    Ronbo
     
  16. K005

    K005 Member

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    OK, I should have read the rule book. They allow them, but not where the ATA gives out trophies. So why does the MO Fall Classic have a non-registered handicap event. Do the winners get punched the same as an ATA event? I personally don't see what's wrong with a compulsory purse, it's the same as charging a higher entry fee and handing out trophies. 100 practice target cost $16, and larger ATA events cost $26-29 per 100, so isn't the extra entry $$ the same as a comp purse?

    Bob K.
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You are using common sense, which is prohibitted under Art. 1, sec. 2 of the rules and regulations. HMB
     
  18. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Mark, you said that category shooters didn't have to play the purses...past tense. Did you mean to say that with this new ruling on mandatory purses, that the category shooters won't have to play the purse if they choose category (present tense)?

    I am not sure whether I am for or against this. On one hand, it makes it so that I don't have to be a bettor, and I like winning things. I cannot bet on anything, including myself, because it is against my family's religous ethics. On the other hand, I feel sorry for the family who shoots together, because their cost to attend a shoot may price them right out of participating as a family. Maybe we don't have many families like that, I don't know.
     
  19. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    recurvy, thats what we did at the KTA, and i caught hell from non cat. shooters but caught hell before the "rule" from the cat. shooters....but i guess if ya aren't pissin somebody off you aren't doing anything haha
     
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