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Why No AAA Class at Cardinal Center ??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Uncle Sam, Aug 24, 2009.

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  1. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    At the recent Cardinal Classic in Marengo they announced that it was now the nations 4th largest shoot...behind the Grand American, Penna. State Shoot, and the Ohio State Shoot also located at Cardinal Center. This was the 4th Cardinal Classic and was a great shoot but I am puzzled as to why there is no AAA classes in singles and doubles at this facility !! The Ohio State Shoot has a multiplier of 7 for All American Points and the Cardinal Classic is a 5 and maybe a 6 and justifibly so.....there were many, many big time All American shooters there. So.....why no AAA classes? Many of the satellite grands are smaller and still have AAA classes. Just wondered if anybody knew a reason why........Uncle Sam, Pa.
     
  2. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    Just wondered...that's all !!
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Excellent question.
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't... what's the reason for lumping so many together???
     
  5. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    And over a year has passed and still can't get an answer...The shoots at Cardinal Center continue to grow because of the fine facility and it just seems that a AAA class would be prudent.
     
  6. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

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    It saves money on trophies, All American Points only count for the top class and category, it saves on shoot off targets and shells, they only offer a class purse during the championship doubles and singles events (so an additional class serves no purpose other than to add two additional trophies per event)...

    ...with all of that being said, I would expect to see an AAA class next year.

    All the best,

    Walker
     
  7. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    They will be shooting a class 6 shoot next year. When the shoot grows big enough it will have AAA class. It is earned not just done.

    Rock

    Jim
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, BS......I suspect it's purpose is to pool a greater $$$$ into the top shooter fund....

    Would be interesting to see the breakdown of how many AA shooters vs. AAA shooters really participated....
     
  9. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    OK because he wants to shoot AA Right now the payouts are good start adding more classes more expense. I suspect that it will come as the shoot grows. It is a private shoot sanctioned under ATA rules. The best AAA shooters would be out as far as money goes there aren't that many.

    If you take and give the big purse money to the AAA shooters all the rest will be a lot smaller. If you add a class the money has to come from somewhere (unless you think like Obama and can operate on a I.O.U.?).

    While there are a few state shoots with AAA class they are not many. Iowa is one Ohio, Pa, FL, do not and they have been around a couple of years. So maybe after the State goes to AAA maybe they will.

    How many private clubs shoot ATA in AAA class.

    That's what I was trying to say. This a a new venue still in it's infancy name me a three year old PRIVATE facility that shoots AAA. Yea I know Sparta the Grand American.

    Rock

    Jim
     
  10. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Missouri Fall Handicap fall with the four largest trapshoots mentioned in the beginning of this thread?
     
  11. Jerry Parr

    Jerry Parr Member

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    ............Huh??? Rock...many state shoots have Class AAA. California is another one. AAA does not 'take away purse money' as you say. AAA was created as a gesture to remove the really 'big dogs' from the everyday AA shooters contention. Purse money is class specific. AA shooters can still shoot for all the AA money they want. Or are you saying you are pissed you can't get a shot at Leo, Harlan, Kay etc. and their money?? By the way, there is no money in class, singles or doubles.....been that way for years. If you are worried about purses, ya better focus on handicap....and that pool can barely float a toy duck anymore....Jerry
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Adding a AAA class does much more than separating the very top shooters from the AA shooters. It moves some A shooters into AA where they struggle. And it moves some shooters who usually shoot class A into class B where they excel. Some typical class C shooters are moved into Class D.

    I am not stating that adding a AAA class is good or bad for any shoot. All I am saying it that it does affect all of the classes and can cause great confusion with some shooters. At least in theory, adding a AAA class should make the winning scores in the lower classes greater. Class D will have many shooters who usually shoot in class C.

    In a few months at a shoot with a AAA class I will say to many "you have shot class A all year but at this shoot you can shoot class B if you want", and to others "you have shot class A all year long but at this shoot you get bumped up to AA." I make going down a class optional but moving up a class is mandatory.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. AACT

    AACT TS Member

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    This thread seems to be about the Big Dogs. Lets go the other way. Ask your Delegate why, when we go to six classes we eliminate class "D". (Six classes, D is under 90. Five classes, under 88.) Hint. It's a mistery formula from the Grand American.

    Thank you Cardinal for not screwing the "D" shooter.

    E S Hale #83-01199
     
  14. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Member

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    Barry.....The Missouri Fall Handicap would now be 5th....but not very far behind the Cardinal Classic. I don't know if the Fall Handicap has AAA or not. Ohio did not have AAA at their State shoot either and it surpassed Penna. this year and is now the largest State shoot(championship events) and still no AAA even with probably the highest number of All Americans attending of any State shoot in the nation. It will be intersting to see what happens in 2010.
     
  15. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    AACT / ES Hale,


    Your point is well made and was informally discussed this past weekend at Cardinal Center by some of our Directors. If we were to go to a 6 class system we would more than likely add the extra class at the bottom of the scale not the top. Compare the amount of shooters that are averaging in the 80's and low 90's to the amount that average 98+. If our goal is to encourage the new shooters why would we want to split the top class in half and add a trophy for the minority in the upper few percentile?


    Don Cogan
    NW Zone Director
    Ohio State Trapshooting Association
     
  16. AACT

    AACT TS Member

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    Mr. Cogan, Thanks for seeing my point. 60% of our field in Connecticut are C & D shooters. We do not tread on them.

    Maybe Mr. Winston can give us the ATA's formula for six classes. I think I know the answer but have never seen it published.

    E S Hale
     
  17. Dbl Auto

    Dbl Auto Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons the Ohio shoots are doing so well is becasue DuckDog is behind the counter. Don is a great guy and a great trapshooter, as noted by his 99 from the 27 on Wednesday at the Cardinal. Don, are you still thinking about that 99th target that got away?

    Doug Allison
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Don Cogan - I agree that adding a class at the bottom is better than adding a class at the top. This could be done by adding a AAA class but dropping the averages in the six classes. This would be more acceptable than something like an E class.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I have the 2006 average book and it has AAA in the 6 class 98% and over AAA
    Five class system 97% and over AA

    There is only a 3/4 percent difference in A 94.75-96.25 =A in 6 class system

    There should be some larger point spreads in the lower classes, I think 90% and inder for D is too high

    In % class system it is 88% and under is D

    In 6 class there is only a 1.75 diff for B

    In 6 class there is only a 1.5 Diff in A

    "" "" "" " "" 1.75 Diff in AA

    The class differences are pretty close together


    This is listed in section V page d-7 in 2006 average book.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I think it is time to note that according to ATA rule that.

    "4.If Shoot Management desires to use different classification it may do
    so by printing the modified classification in the program of the shoot."

    Which to me means that any club may at anytime choose to not use or modify the classes in question.

    Bob Lawless
     
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