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Why is ATA shooting so agrivating..........

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Wolfman, Jun 10, 2009.

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  1. Wolfman

    Wolfman Member

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    Got to vent here a little - I shot Northern Zone in Illinois, and really like to shoot ATA registered, but.......

    It takes so darn long! Why do I have to spend an entire day - 8 hours - to shoot 2.5 hours? Can someone explain?

    If I shoot well, I'll hang out, but if not, I've got a family and grass, and a life. I have been very reluctant to suggest ATA shooting to anyone because of the long day required. When you add the 2 hours of driving, it's a 10 hour day!

    I would like to (not so humbly) suggest that ATA shots be organized so you can show up, shoot all the events, and go home. By this I mean 16/Caps/Dbls. Most clubs have 6 fields, and could easily accommodate that type of arrangement by rotation. Caps would present an issue due to yardage, but I think that it could be worked around by pre-squading.

    For the retired crowd, the current format is fine. I'm not retired. Although I have to admit - shooting ATA makes me feel young:) If we want to encourage ATA shooting, I think this is a fundamental change that requires consideration.
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I never could figure out why ATA doesn't have specific "flight" times, telling you what time to be on the field to shoot. I guess after shooting a while, you could figure out roughly what time to be ready based on squad number, but you still probably have to be there at least an hour before hand, vs skeet where as long as you are ready to go when the clock says to be on your field, your good to go....
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    I am retired and it is not fine. I like shooting, not hanging around all day in the parking lot. HMB
     
  4. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    The simple answer is to hold shoots on larger venues. Go to a State Shoot with 32 traps or more operating and you'll nearly get your wish of barely restocking the suitcase with shells and back out for the next event. Then, if you think trap drags feet, try a skeet shoot with many fewer shooters. More then, if spending the day socializing and shooting doesn't appeal, why do it?......Bob Dodd
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Even a small club (4 or 5 traps) can move alot quicker with a little foresight...

    1 - dedicate 2 traps (1 bank) for singles

    2 - dedicate 1 trap for handicap

    3 - dedicate 1 trap for doubles

    All 3 may run at the same time.

    If there are no doubles shooters (or they are finished), open it to singles, etc.

    With a little management it's a no brainer.

    Now, just try to get the present club's management to do this as this is "not the ATA way". Too radical!!

    Curt
     
  6. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    Well Curt all you have to do in your suggestion is to have a minimun of 4 scorers or 5 and then someone to run registration and load targets, then enough shooters to pay for them. Volunteers you say! Show me. I would love to have enough shooters and workers to make it happen. They are just not there so we, the few volunteers that do run these shoots, do the best we can. Jake
     
  7. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Jake...

    W/O volunteers there will be no shoots. If all clubs went to a strictly paid help scheme, them most shooters could not afford it.

    If you can't find volunteers, charge accordingly.

    We have the same problem in Delaware as only a very few bother to do anything. The rest just offer chin music.

    Curt
     
  8. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'm in the minority here, as I don't mind it the way it is at all. I like to shoot an event, go visit with friends, see some vendors, relax, etc., and then go out and shoot another event. I think a lot of the retired crowd would just plain run out of gas if they had to shoot 300 targets in a row in order to complete a days events. I always plan on making a total weekend of it when shooting a registered shoot as I know, before hand, how long it will take. I enjoy some cribbage between events with friends, a social lunch, and just visiting, and consider it all part of the enjoyable registered shooting experience. That's the reason I do it. I want to have fun. A lot of the shooters I visit with I don't get to see very often, and I enjoy spending as much time with them as is allowed during this time. I would much prefer to "stop and smell the roses" than I would to just shoot'em and run. I enjoy life, trapshooting, and friends too much to rush through it... Just my opinion... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  9. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    I'll never stop shooting because I gotta' go cut the grass, I'll pay a kid $20.

    Wayne
     
  10. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    There are only a few ways to shorten the day. The biggest time waster is to have fields sitting idle at the beginning of the day. This is most noticiable when using 4 field banks. For each 4 field bank you waste the time equivalent of 6 rounds or, a squad and a half.

    To save this time, we start 4 squads and that flight rotates through the 4 fields then the next flight of 4 squads start. 4 squads can shoot in 50-55 minutes. This means you can shoot 40 guys in under 2 hours.

    However, this still wastes a lot of time because of the moves between fields and all 4 squads can only move as fast as the slowest squad in the flight and you pick up no time savings on your short squads.

    If you have fields that are comparable in target presentation OR if you have 8 fields then 100 per field make great sense. Not only do you pickup the vacant field time, you eliminate several minutes of move time. An average squad will take 40-45 minutes and a slow squad only slows down the squads scheduled for that field and you do pick up the time on short squads.

    If the ATA would shoot 100 per field at Sparta, they wouldn't have to have shootoffs at 9:00pm. In that there is no "fairness" beween squads shooting banks 2 miles apart anyway, moving through 4 fields is just a remarkably dumb thing to do.
     
  11. berettagold53954

    berettagold53954 TS Member

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    i second 100 per trap
     
  12. 1brucem

    1brucem TS Member

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    I love this thread. I go to a lot of shoots and find that the number one time killer that is preventable is management not having the intent to keep the shoot moving. Two weeks ago the club I shot posted a start time of 10 but did not start until 11:30 as they did not want to start until all shooters were registered as they allowed saving of spots on early squads. The next day they started at 9 not at the posted 10 as to get the shoot going and ending early. Their attention was on get it start early but when they had two events done by 12, they wasted an hour or more before starting the last event. This is the loss of intention! I know we lose more shooter to this "time waste" then we want to believe. Let's start to get awareness that the indifference to "time waste" is hurting our sport and acknowledge the cost in shooter turn out, shooter dissatisfaction and loss of club revenue. Great Thread, Bruce
     
  13. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    "Most of these delays are blamed on management"

    As well they should be. Shoot management has got to hustle squads for the very reasons you stated.
     
  14. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    It is not just the clubs that cause the delays. About 3 months ago, I shot on a squad with 2 shooters that took an average of 30 seconds each to mount, call for a target and shoot.
    They would mount their gun very slowly and then stare off in the distance. It was like they were lost in space. I don’t know if they were trying to un-nerve the rest of the squad, if they were beginners or what, but it took us almost an hour and 45 minutes to shoot our 100 singles targets.

    The squad rhythm was like: 1, 2, 3,…………………….......4………………………….5.
    Not a word was said by me, or the other 2 squad members who witnessed this. After I shot my singles, I wrote down their names of the slowpokes, checked to make sure they were not on my handicap squad and vowed never to shoot on any squads with them again.

    Maybe the answer put timer on traps to throw a target every 5 seconds, instead of allowing the shooter to call for the target. If he isn’t ready and does not shoot at the bird, it is lost, providing it is a legal target. This could make the game more interesting and realistic like hunting. Who knows what it might do to straighten out other problems we like to complain about.
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    NHSC

    "As well they should be. Shoot management has got to hustle squads for the very reasons you stated."

    So let me see if I understand your slant on this based on the above quote. You feel that I and others like me that volunteer at some of the shoots in the association that I belong to as well as the person that FlaLagarto described. Should run around locating shooters that feel that they shouldn't have to spend an entire day at the shoot that the shoot should be over earlier so they can go home and mow their lawn.

    Well tell me please why should I play babysitter for GROWN individuals that know when you ask for something to be done for you (OK, there is one spot open we'll ask them to wait for you) that you need to realize that they are holding the shoot for you and you are stopping a lot of lawn mowing by shooting the BS and constantly not being ready for your squad when it is time for you to shoot.

    You by your comments feel that this is the clubs responsibility. I feel that there is plenty of room for squad hustlers committee, if you will kindly provide your name we can see that you are guaranteed a spot on the hustle committee. This will allow you to get off your opinionated ass and help make your day shorter. If that scenario doesn't appeal to you you can always keep your thoughts to yourself. That is just my opinion of course.

    Bob Lawless
     
  16. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    What is the hurry? I'm not retired but when I go to a shoot I like to spend all day BSing and shooting. If you treat shooting like a job then how the hell can you enjoy it? Life is too short to hurry through it and not enjoy the things you do for fun. I miss the days when you were done shooting and then the games began. Horseshoes and Annie Oaklies until the sun set. That reminds me I better go fishing.
     
  17. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    It called hustling squads not hustling individuals. That means everything from making sure on deck squads know they are on deck to telling a squad to start without waiting for a missing member. Obviously the smaller the club, the easier it is. We do it every month and the majority of shooters appreciate it.

    We work hard to make sure our shoots run well. We start on time, if not early, we throw well-set targets, we are friendly, we have good food and if someone is not happy, we cheerfully refund their money and if it is our fault, we apologize. These are the reasons why we get 35-60 ATA shooters at our 4 trap club.
     
  18. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    I should also note that one huge timesaver is to load the trap while a squad is shooting. We put someone in the house after every third round so that we never have to put the cone up.
     
  19. ddrsuz

    ddrsuz Member

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    It seems like to big time savers are

    1. load the traps while shooting is going on.
    2. Shoot a "random doubles trap", so the folks that are done with singles or caps can get their doubles in if there is any slack time between events. Just get your squad together and go post your scores.

    d
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    NHSC your comments do not even come close to fitting the main question here. The gentleman that asked the question as I am reading it wants to know.

    "Why do I have to spend an entire day - 8 hours - to shoot 2.5 hours?"

    As I read that he wants to shave 5+ hours off the shooting day. You seem to feel that if you

    "We start on time, if not early, we throw well-set targets, we are friendly, we have good food and if someone is not happy, we cheerfully refund their money and if it is our fault, we apologize."

    You will accomplish this goal you also said "It called hustling squads not hustling individuals."

    Well in your wildest dreams you and all of your club members could not hustle 5+ hours off the shooting day. So explain how your point what ever it is fits the question???

    Bob Lawless
     
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