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Why Faster?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Ajax, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    If you agree with the theory it only takes one pellet to break the target,
    and single pellet of size 8 at 1145FPS will do the job.

    Why do loaders speed up 1 or 7/8oz loads? If the theory is correct why would you need more energy?

    Ajax
     
  2. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Speed kills, dummy....If you haven't found that out yet, you will.
     
  3. Jack Frost

    Jack Frost TS Member

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    I read once about speeding up heavy loads and the outcome. At a point a load reaches a speed in which the pattern suffers. Some people want to load the heaviest/fastest load they can find thinking it will give them an advantage only to find out that the pattern gets out of control at those high velocities. They can accomplish the same performance goal by slightly reducing the mass and driving it faster.

    J.F.
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The faster it goes the faster it slows down when it leaves the muzzle. HMB
     
  5. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    You can argue this all you want, but most statements made on this subject are from different perspective. I think a nice 1300 fps 1 oz smokes a target prettier than a 1140 fps 1 1/8. Honestly both kill the target but I like the 1300 more, and have more confidence in the load. So if I think I will kill more targets with more speed, I probably will. It's just a personal preference.
     
  6. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    flincher, please post your ATA # so we can see how great your 27 yard averages are. If speed means nothing, Pheasant loads would all be 1100 FPS, the Big Dogs would all shoot light 8's, and Nitro 27's and Superhandicaps would have fallen to the wayside due to the lack of performance.

    16 yard targets, sure 1 oz 8's will do the trick, but don't make idiotic blanket statements. Not all shooters have recoil issues.
     
  7. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    I think some may have missed the point. The question being: If one pellet will truly break a target at a speed of 1145 in a 1-1/8 load, wouldn't a single pellet from a 7/8 load at the same speed do the same thing? If not, why not?

    Hi Steve.

    Ajax
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    fewer pellets, less chance of hitting the target.
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The energy in the shot is not the important factor, it is the energy that the shot can transfer to the target. Using some hypothetical numbers-- suppose it takes 1.5 ft/pounds to break a target. If a shot has 3 ft/pounds of energy and hit the target, 1.5 ft/lbs will be used to break the target and 1.5 ft/lbs will remain in the shot and carry it past the broken target. If a shot with 2 ft/lbs of energy hits the target, 1.5 ft/lbs will be transfered to the target and the shot will have only 0.5 ft/lbs to carry it past the broken target.

    Targets are brittle. The speed at which the shot transfers the energy to the target could be of some importance. I know of no way to measure this.

    The speed of the shot is important in getting the shot from the barrel to the target but once it reaches the target, this factor greatly decreases in importance.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    flinch can blow smoke all he wants. You will be handicapped shooting 7/8oz load at 1145 fps. First of all, 1 pellet doesn't always break the target. It has to be through the meat of the target. If it's off the rim, low, or side, 1 pellet will not do it.

    If you give it more speed, you increase your odds, but you'll do better tightening your choke so more pellets are on the bird, and thats where the problem is. Tighter chokes require the shooter to be more precise, unless of course the targets are right in your face.
     
  11. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I load 12ga shells at 2 speeds 1235fps and 1350fps.

    My 1235fps loads are:

    7/8 oz of 8 1/2's (skeet and first shot on doubles).

    1 oz of 8's (singles second shot at doubles and my primary sporting clays shell).

    1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2's (handicap and longer range sporting shell).

    My 1350fps loads are:

    wobble/bunker (7/8 oz)

    games (1 1/8 oz)

    ss
     
  12. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Ajax,

    I thought the ideas behind faster, lighter loads are that the shooter suffers the same recoil and gains in speed, the benefit being you get there 'right now' and have to be concerned less about lead. That's what I heard. I'd like to hear what Neil says or has said about this one.

    But then, if you like it and it gives you more confidence, who cares.

    Joe
     
  13. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Isn't the controlling factor the powder? Less shot doesn't equate to less powder. Powder has a minimum grain for proper performance so a 7/8 oz load flies faster and patterns tighter. I use the same speed from 16 to 27yd.
    Dave T.
     
  14. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    Pardon my naivete but isn't decreased lead on the target the main advantage to faster loads? Less computation going on in my head usually translates into more hits.
    dju
     
  15. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I would think the main reasons for higher velocities with smaller payloads is to keep pressures up for a more efficient powder burn. Look how low pressures are with 7/8 load at 1150 fps. Wayne
     
  16. VNVET

    VNVET Member

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    One pellet will not reliably break the target everytime. Just walk out to the 50 yd stake and check out the unbroken targets on the gound. Some will be hit with as many as three pellets and not break.

    Jim
     
  17. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    I think the reason big dogs shoot higher velocities is because the other big dogs do. We average shooters want to shoot higher velocities because the big dogs do.

    Just what do you think the difference in lead is between a 1150 load & a 1250 load at 40 yds.? For my use it isn't worth the extra pounding that any high velocity load will give me.
     
  18. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    FYI,

    1 1/8 oz, WAA12 wads, 17.7 gr Clays, Rem 209P primer, Rem STS hulls, in a 9 lb gun yields 17.26 ft/lbs of recoil. 1145 fps.


    1 oz, WAA12SL wads, 19.9 gr Clays, Rem 209P primer, Rem STS hulls, in a 9 lb gun yields 17.45 ft/lbs of recoil. 1290 fps. 1.11% more recoil than the slower 1 1/8 oz load. That doesn't take into account the perhaps slightly lower weight of the 1 oz wads vs. the 1 1/8 oz wads.

    Recoil is affected much more by the ejecta than the powder and speed at the muzzle, if the Hodgdon recoil calculators are to be believed.

    Now, continue.

    Danny
     
  19. MXSHOOTER

    MXSHOOTER TS Member

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    First of all 1 pellet will not break a target, to prove my point I would ask you to walk around in front of your favorite trap and pick up un broken targets, I think you will find quite a few with 2,3,and even 4 or more holes in them
     
  20. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    A lot of good ideas. I never did ask any thing about pattern density or choke constriction. I agreed that one pellet is going to hit and break the target out of both loads, why does the light load need to be faster?


    Ajax
     
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