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Why don't the ammo manufacturers.....

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by GoldEx, Jul 16, 2007.

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  1. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    Why don't the ammo manufacturers load a 1 ounce load with the same ballistics as a 1 1/8? It seems that the major makers only make a 1 ounce at 1180 (2 3/4 dram) and 1290 (3 Dram) What could the logic be for not loading the 1 ounce load to the same velocity as their 1 1/8 ounce offering? Even most loading data relfects this trend.

    Jeff
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Loading one ounce at 1150 that goes off and sounds right _all the time_ is a little iffy, at least it is for me. It's right at the lower limit of what I can load and maybe they have the same problems I have.

    Neil
     
  3. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    Neil is right, many companies have put prouducts like this out only to have it backfire on them. I remember some federal low recoil loads about 10years ago. Yup they were light recoil alright.......as some pellets were just able to dribble out the barrel. Cold weather and shelf time can hurt these loads.

    GS
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil is correct. For proper powder burn rather high pressures are required. Lighter shot charges do not provide adequate resistance to create the proper pressure with light powder charges.

    In some reloading manuals you can find some recipes for lighter one ounce loads using slower burning powders. These loads will produce low chamber pressures and very irregular performance. All recipes in loading manuals are safe but not all of them are good.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Neil and Pat's points are dead on and this situation is even more a dilemma for building weenies (7/8 oz loads). That is exactly why I've often posted here that the up close trap, skeet, and some sporting targets taken with 7/8 oz of 9s needs a good, fast, hot powder and enough to make them consistent. You can reduce recoil with less shot. You can reduce recoil with light charges of powder. But doing both at the same time is likely to lead you to inconsistent burns, velocity, and results.

    On point, however, I've seen a number of 1200 fps factory 1 oz shells by the likes of Fiocchi, maybe Estates, and I too wish they were more common on the shelves. 1 oz loads with generally fast powder at 1200 fps has been a stellar performer across my chronograph in the past.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  6. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, that is an excellent question and now that reloading has ceased to be a cost saving venture I would love to see such a shell come onto the market especially in something like a Rio or Kemen.

    I use 1 oz, 1150 fps shells for most of my 16 yard shooting and first shot at double. If I can successfully reload such a shell with, at this point, 3 different powders with out any cold weather problems, or any other problems for that matter, then certainly a factory could do the same.

    It seems to me that you loose the recoil advantage of a 1 oz load if you jack up the speed to 1180fps. I think a commercial shell as you described would be a winner.

    Smash Em,

    Jerry
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Fiocchi has a 1 ounce shell advertized as 1150 fps. 12TL, I think?
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    BTW, in my opinion, a 1 ounce load at 1180 fps is lighter recoil than a 1-1/8 ounce load at 1145 fps.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Neil, quote: "Loading one ounce at 1150 that goes off and sounds right _all the time_ is a little iffy, at least it is for me. It's right at the lower limit of what I can load and maybe they have the same problems I have."<br>
    <br>
    This also sounds like it would be an issue for recoil or gas operated shotguns. I would think manufacturers would generally be hesitant to make loads that would not cycle semi-autos.
     
  10. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I use 1 ounce loads with 16.3 grains of 700X. It has worked very well with no bloopers and cycles all three of my 1100's every time.
     
  11. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    The faster the powder burns,,,the less you need to operate the bolt on a semi-auto.....

    You can easily load a "light load" with more than enough pressure to operate the bolt with your wad and powder combinations!!!!

    That being said,,,,,,We always hear these words------------"Shell Companies DO NOT make a profit from trapshooters,,,,we do not shoot enough rounds to really make it profitable"....Isn't that right???

    Now then,,,,,what if------What if the ATA actually came up with ONE LOAD,,,,just one "standard" trap load to be used in compettition!!!! We would let the membership vote on which load to make "standard" and since everyone here believes in the power of the VOTE,,,there will be no problems,,,All will abide by the majoritys will!!!!!!!!

    That would let the shell manufactures drop certain lines of trap loads,,,and concentrate on ONE load that ALL trapshooters would use "en-masse",,,and with volumn comes profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There you go ATA,,,,but you won't even think about it would you????? even in this time of high prices,,,and people cutting back on everything,,,It is far easier to do nothing,,,than to do something right............

    AKA Grammie............
     
  12. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    I load 7/8 oz loads for 16 yd trap using 17-1/2 grains of Green Dot and the claybuster grey wad in STS hulls.

    I have chronographed this load many times and it will go 1225 fps on average with standard deviations of 15 on an average. This in a 32" BT99.

    I have shot these loads down to +10 degrees with no funny sounding, or noticable deviant loads. I think the main reason is the primer....a Federal 209-A.
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    ONE LOAD? AGREED UPON COLLECTIVELY BY TRAPSHOOTERS?<br>
    <br>
    Man, you must be living in some sort of trapshooting utopia. You'd have an easier time merging the GOP and DNC into one party.
     
  14. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    Grammie I think that is a great idea. Will it fly? I don't think so. Too many people think there is some kind of black magic involved in their reloads. Or that Nitro 27's have "special properties."

    Now if there were a definite economic advantage then maybe you'd get a ground swell.

    Smash Em,

    Jerry
     
  15. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    Yes,,of course,,,but a litte wistful thinking never hurts!!!! The joke???? well sir,,,,the joke is,,,,I was not kidding about one load!!! But the joke of it is,,,there is no original thoughts in the shooting hierarchy,,,,"one load" could cement a "SPONSOR",,,IF the right marketing approuch was used....too many good ole boys and too little thought..........

    AKA grammie...........
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...just as in bowling, where all have to use one ball, golf where they have to all use one club, and Bud Light, since in a vote US beer drinkers opted for that brand and outlawed all others to keep costs down.

    Grammie, since I don't bowl just as you don't shoot trap, could you recommend a ten-pin website where I can propose my economical "one ball" requirement to the readers are, no doubt, awaiting my words?

    Neil
     
  17. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    I shoot in a climate that does get a bit on the nipply side in January and February. I shoot 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads in old style AA hulls with WW 209's and 700X that have never given me a blooper, squib or funny sounding report when fired. Also have had success with Solo 1000. These loads were published a few years ago by a popular gun magazine by Layne Simpson who was shooting them in a 90-T. They are mild and unbelievably deadly on a 16n yard target or for the first shot on doubles. These loads appear to be very consistent, at least in my guns. They are right at 1145-1150 FPS. If anyone is interested, I can e-mail you the data. My scanner is on the fritz or I would post the article.

    Jeff
     
  18. JoeBerg

    JoeBerg TS Member

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    I've been getting the 1 oz 3 Dram (1235 fps) 7-1/2 shot Estates (Product Code #SS12H1)at $44.90 / flat from a local independant gun shop, however he is running out of them and can't confirm when more are coming in. This is a terrific practice shell that I would recommend you try out if you come across them - JoeBerg
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Heck, Grammie, why stop there? How about ONE GUN too?
     
  20. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    Neil:

    I no longer rifle shoot either,,,,,,but that doesn't mean,,,I can't or don't know how when I speak of it!!!!!!

    Your're not a prostitute,,,but I bet you have an OPINION on the subject!!!

    neil,,,,you know yourself,,that many things the ATA does is "worth money" but its bypassed!!!

    Example,,,,,Can you imagine someone buying a "wildcard" at a calcutta for 1200 dollars????? I've seen it many times,,,so have you!!! Now then...how much would an "auction" bring in???? An auction that gave ONE FULL SQUAD the right to shoot the "last squad at Vandalia" and the "first squad at Sparta" complete with a story to be printed in Trap&Field,,,,,the rights to that could have been auctioned to some group of sentimental ole trapshooters for thousands!!! There are many many more!!!! The rights to one load could be contracted to one or two shell companies,,,,,that would offer a "bounty" to any shooter that wins a major event with their shells,,,a competitive sort of thing,,,that could be "auctioned" for thousands!!!!

    Hell Neil,,,,get together with some of your friends,,,buy some cheap land in Texas,,,and set up your own shell company,,that could produce a few million rounds per year,,,,,then have the ATA vote to use your shell,,,that way it could all be kept in the family!!!

    And it was good!!!!!!

    AKA Grammie.........
     
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