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Why does the BOD hate me?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jimbotrap, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    u r 2. There are a couple of EC members that believe as you do. The others and the majority of the BoD, do not have a clue. They hold their positions for personal, prestiges reasons. And they really do not care what you think or do. Never have and never will. - Jim
     
  2. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Jim -

    You are offering your opinion of the EC, but the question was about a rule change, which I thought had to be done by the BOD (delegates).

    Are they all holding their positions for personal prestiges (sic) reasons too?

    Maybe UR2 should contact his delegate to find out why he hates him? And just for clarity, he's not Junior when he turns 15. He's a junior at the beginning of the next target year after he turns 15 (unless he decides to move up to Junior when he turns 15).

    Scott
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    First, I fail to understand why one would complain about a rule change seven months after the change was made instead of contacting delegates before the rule was changed. This change had been discussed nearly one year prior to making the change. If the Delegates have no clue, as stated above, it is because shooters have not given them a clue.

    The EC and the Delegates sincerely want to help shooters. They need feed back from shooters, but get very few suggestions and a lot of complaints. It seemed clear that a change was needed at the Junior level, and it seemed logical that if the Junior category was reduced by one year, than the Sub Junior category should also be reduced.

    Additionally, I see absolutely no prestige involved with the office of Delegate. Target setters, cashiers and Delegates all work for us and all are important.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Back when my now-26 year-old son was a sub-junior or junior shooter, he received an unearned punch of (I think) two yards when the minimum yardage for youngsters was increased. I don't recall hearing even one person complaining about it.

    Not having a young shooter in the house or running registered shoots any longer, I honestly was not aware of this rule change but it might just be an indicator that we have more good younger shooters in the ATA. If that's true, I'd view this rule change as a compliment to my son's ability and the growth of the ATA, not a means by which to limit his ability to win something - especially money - in a sport that's supposed to be fun. (I originally wrote, '...his ability to sandbag' but thought better of it.)

    If your son played a high school sport and was moved up from junior varsity to varsity a year before most players usually are, would you be equally upset? If not, I'd wager that your concern is all about the trophies and money, not the competition.

    Ed
     
  5. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    You are now an official member of the W and B er's club.

    Hell let's let him shoot sub-jr til he is 22.

    You act like you are the only parent who has spend his hard earned money on there child's shooting. You live and play by the rules in force at the time, nothing more - nothing less. Unless you want him to continue to beat up on the 12 - 13 year old kids.

    Don
     
  6. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record when a youngster turned 15 they were a jr. for YEARS. Shooters were classed as adults on reaching 18 years old. A few yeas ago that was changed " for a short time", changing the ages to 16 and 19 respectfully. A couple of years ago the ATA changed the rule BACK. The so called "new" rule is simply restoring it to the way it was was for decades. Frankly I NEVER agreed with the rule change allowing 16 year olds to shoot as sub -jrs or 19 year olds shooting as jrs in the first place. If you go back and read the rule rule as recently as 2001, you will see a shooter was placed in jr. status upon reaching their 15th birthday and adult status upon reaching their 18th birthday. If you have been shooting for 30 years and don't know this, you didn't read the rules back then. This has caused confusion among newer shooters, but the older shooters should know this. I'm not trying to be over critical of you. The ATA should have never opened this can of worms by changing the rule in the first place, but the rule was changed back and I think for good reason. I do wish your son luck in his shooting, but he is only having to do what young shooters his age did fo decades before him.
     
  7. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    u r 2:

    On behalf of the shooters who have benefited from your volunteer efforts running a club and helping with registered shoots, thank you! On behalf of the ATA and the club(s) you support, thanks again. The unpaid and all to often thankless hours spent by volunteers supporting clubs is what allows most clubs to exist.

    And... It sounds like your son is blessed with a father that is both supportive and a good role model.

    To those persistently critical of elected volunteers:

    I often hear elected volunteers, i.e. the EC, ATA Delegates, state directors/officers, and club officials, criticized for one reason or another. To the extent they hold 'prestige jobs', the prestige IMO is that a majority of shooters in the subject jurisdiction voted those volunteers into office.

    I think there is a special place in Heaven for them guys. Its amazing to observe their patience, perseverance, diligence, cheerfulness, and usefulness, in the midst of the aggravation they tolerate. Only the wise suffer fools gladly. I do not.

    sissy
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    u r 2 I was going to pass on this thread until you made your second post. What has happened the the young man is upsetting. I am also willing to bet that your son thought about it for a short time and has now taken it in stride.

    You on the other hand are ranting and raving. I have,I did,I think and I would like to know, This is not about you this is about your son. You should be thankful for the time you have spent with him in the teaching process. "I have spent untold dollars teaching this young man to shoot" A lot of parents don't get the same opportunities with their children. As far as the money is concerned you will never invest money or time more wisely than you already have.

    You have taken the time to teach this young man about the greatest sport in this mans world. Finish the lesson and teach him that life isn't always cut and dried it is now time to take the bad with the good.

    You have invested a lot of time and money in your sons future. I will just bet he is a worth while young man. Give him a little time and he will make you realize it. You will be damn proud of him soon enough and if you aren't already you should be.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    UR2,

    If your son just turned 15 he can still compete as a SJ for the rest of this target year. It's been this way at least since 2005, as I have a 2005 rule book for quick reference in my office (always check the ATA since the most recent one is always there). But like slide action noted, I also remember that it changed to 16 for a while. I'd have to look back through the rule books contained in the average books to see when that was though.

    He will get a bump from to the 20 if he is not already there, but other than that, no changes this year.

    tom
     
  10. patch

    patch Active Member

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    I think the BOD just don't understand that they need to leave well enough alone. Why worry about this? I understand ur2's argument,his son has shot for years against 16 yr olds,and now they change the rules when his son is turning 16. Just another stupid rule change that affects the average,usually short yardage shooter.It also does no good to talk to a delegate that doesn't want to listen.I also will not comment on the money punch,although it does need discussion,but nobodycares what the average short yardage shooter thinks.The mindset of the delegates are just pay your money,shut up,shoot,and go home.If you win,money or a trophy,we will try to think of another dumb and useless rule to stop that in the future. Thank You.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    patch- Again, the change in Sub Jr was tied to a change in Junior classification. With the old classification, we had College Freshmen and young men in the Army still shooting as Juniors.

    Also, you must know different Delegates than I know. The big complaint I hear from Delegates is that shooters will not tell them what they want. When the "punch for money" rule was first suggested by the CHC, I sought out around 50 shooters and asked there opinions. I also brought up the change at the state meeting. Ninety percent of the shooters I asked did not care and about 10% were in favor of the change.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Ur2, You made a big mistake. If you were going to invest "untold money" teaching your kid a sport and you want a return on the investment, trapshooting is about the worst choice out there. Golf, tennis, baseball yea that might pay you back. Trapshooting? Never. Jake
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    u r 2 I have looked for the original rule that some here have referred to and don't know if what I found is their reference or not.

    I did find in the 1996 Trap & Field average book these rules.

    5. SPECIAL CATEGORIES


    Ladies, Juniors, Sub-Juniors, Veterans, Sr. Veterans and
    Industry shooters shall be so designated.


    a. All female shooters shall be designated as Ladies, though because of age they may also be designated as Juniors,Sub-Juniors, Veterans or Sr. Veterans.


    b. A shooter who has not reached his or her 15th birthday will be designated as a Sub-Junior.


    c. A male shooter upon reaching age 15 must shoot from a
    minimum handicap yardage of 20 yards unless he has
    already earned greater yardage.


    d. A shooter who is 15 but has not reached his or her 18th birthday will be designated as a Junior.


    I do not know why the rules were changed officially but my suspicions are that the rule was changed to do away with the 20 yard line for the Sub-Junior.

    AS I stated this is just a hunch. I hope this helps although the way you are complaining I don't suppose that it will.

    Bob Lawless
     
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