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Why does the ATA let this go on...??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BLACK ICE, Jul 23, 2011.

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  1. BLACK ICE

    BLACK ICE TS Member

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    Why does the ATA and your state assn. let people shoot for the state championship without having had thier req.targets in??? The people that get thier targets in keep this whole thing going, paying the fee's everyday they shoot, and support the local clubs.

    BUT....having no targets in,one can shoot for the title and win !! These people dont support anything but themselves...

    If someone with no targets in wants to shoot they should shoot with the nonresidents/open class.

    Why waist the money shooting ATA targets ?? its cheaper shooting at my local club.

    Just my way of thinkin......

    BLACK ICE
     
  2. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    "Why waist the money shooting ATA targets ?? its cheaper shooting at my local club." BINGO! That is why so many more trapshooters shoot at their local club and local non-ATA leagues than shoot registered.
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The ATA allows states and gun clubs to make whatever penalty rules they (the states and clubs) think are best for a particular event taking all the local conditions into account. So don't blame the ATA; take it up at your state membership meeting.

    (edit) In other words, should a club or state want high minimums and high re-classification (The ATA uses 25-yards at the Grand, after all) the ATA would assume that they knew what they were doing and pay no attention. And, in fact, since the state's BOD is the only determiner of residency, without appeal even by the ATA, it would be possible to call non-supporting members non-residents if it so chose.

    But there is a limit to how self-serving any shooters are willing to appear. To keep the best shooters in the state from shooting as residents would not make the "winners" look like winners, but laughing-stocks. "Champion after disqualifying everyone better," and so on. What would be the point of that?

    Neil
     
  4. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Active Member

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    BLACK ICE,

    Not trying to be critical of you, but you will have to give some type of an example of what you are talking about.

    Where do new shooters come from? They have to start someplace and sometime.

    Ron Burdick
     
  5. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    Its all about money!!! Not all of us are rich, some of us cant afford to run 100miles to a shoot,pay for ATA fees targets every week. We struggle to make our budget each month. But to be able to go to a few shoots yes I can do that.

    In our area there are only a handfull of clubs in a 50mile radius that throw ATA, and not enough to make minimum requirements. Now Me being a C class shooter when I go to the state shoot I have to shoot in A class with the others who dont get all their targets or those who do and are that good!

    Sorry you feel the way you do but I myself make $18000 a year and to support a trap habit gets expensive. So if ATA wants any of my money guess they are like anywhere else any way they can get it but by their rules.

    Jerry Lewis
     
  6. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    A championship is designed to find out who is the best shooter on that given day. If a person who is a legal resident of the state and a member in good standing of the ATA enters and beats all the other residents, he is the champion. If it's handicap he would be shooting penalty yardage, and no doubt a penalty class in 16's and doubles.

    The ATA is only an amateur association which keeps records and enforces the rules made by its members. It is not the gestapo of trap shooting.

    Bob Schultz
     
  7. BLACK ICE

    BLACK ICE TS Member

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    I guess im talking more about some guys only shoot 200 singles at the state shoot and are AA or AAA shooters and try to win the state title.

    Belive me Im not rich..but I always got my targets in so i shot in my class and right yardage.. and being an AA 27 i just could have only shot the state shoot cuz you need 200x200 anyway.

    The point I am making is... If everyone only shot the state shoot and nothing else.. there would be NO state shoot to shoot !!

    One should have to have at least 500 targets before the shoot to shoot for a trophy and title that the state assn and ATA pay for.

    BLACK ICE
     
  8. pdq

    pdq Member

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    Ice:

    At the risk of adding to something that could turn into a flame thread, let me add a comment or two. I shoot at 3 clubs, each within 30 minutes of my house. In the off season they have prize shoots, and during the other part of the year they shoot ATA. Are ATA events more expensive? Hardly. The cost per round varies at those clubs from $2.70 up to $4. When its an ATA event the same costs apply, plus the nominal 1 time daily ATA fee of a couple of bucks. No big deal.

    I recently shot in the MD state championship. I didn't have enough targets in either singles or handicaps. Guess what? They penalized me. They bumped me up 2 classes in singles and put me back 3 feet in handicaps.

    So -- I don't think people can show up and suddenly be competing against equal shooters who have gotten their minimim ATA target counts in, and just walk away with all the prizes. In my case, work has been super busy, I was shy a few hundred targets in each, and I was ok with them penalizing me. I consider that fair.

    As someone stated, I think your beef is with the people running that event, your state ATA delegate, etc.

    Pete
     
  9. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

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    Black Ice, I can't figure out what you're whining about! If I don't have my targets in I'm getting bumped up two classes and shoved back in yardage. At best I'm a C/B class shooter and at best I'm not winning any money or trophies, so I'm not taking anything away from you. Although I'm a 30 minute drive from 3 big shoots there is only one place I can get registered targets and it's 45 miles from here. There's a Big 50 program on most Wednesdays (summer only) that starts at 5:30 - hard to make when you get off work at 5. And on some weekends there is an ATA 100 program. So, if you ran things I guess I wouldn't be able to go to Cardinal, enjoy the competition and being a part of the event, solely because I'm not fortunate enough to be somewhere I can shoot 1,000 singles, 500 doubles and 1,000 hdcp before the shoot starts. I'm an ATA member, pay my dues and shoot registered when I can. Good thing guys like you aren't in charge; I'd have to give it up.

    rm
     
  10. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    Shoot targets only, have fun, and forget about the money and what others are doing...after all, I'm sure you have heard that the love of money is the root of all evil. Look at the tax dilemma going on in Washington. Regards, Ed
     
  11. John55

    John55 Active Member

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    Some years back the ATA changed the minimum target requirements for the Grand to 1000, all being shot in the current target year. It used to be a minimum of 500 in the current year plus 1000 for the previous two years to make a total of 1500. That was much easier for shooters, IMO. A guy could shoot just 500 targets in each year to meet the requirement. In my area now there aren't as many clubs overall, and only one is under 50 miles from my home. Having to make 80 or 100 mile one way trips just to get 1000 targets in is difficult, not to mention expensive. I have a couple of friends that are 20yd, B class type shooters and neither one has the time or $$s to make 10 shoots a year just so they can shoot their own yardage and class at the Grand. Neither one have shot the big shoot and likely won't because they are not even remotely competitive from 25yds, and being out in A or AA for singles is just as bad. If the ATA wants to boost attendance then lower the minimum targets back to the old system and I'll wager the crowds will grow.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "As someone stated, I think your beef is with the people running that event, your state ATA delegate"

    The state delegate represents the state in ATA matters and usually is in charge of classification at the state shoot. This matter fall strictly under the responsibility of the state association. Which to me means the delegate has no say in the matter.

    It would seem that their are a lot of people that need to read the rules and start voting within their state association. JMO

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    well if anyone just goes to the state shoot and shoots penalty class/yardage and wins, he is just lucky. next year he'll be in a higher class/yardage and it will come to a halt. Personally I believe that there should be progressive class/yardage championships at all levels anyhow. once you win Class C you must compete for the next class up until you win it or you time out into a different category men to senior etc.
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    John55, I have been telling this to the ATA and tried to bring it up at the Grand during the meeting last year but was not allowed to speak.

    And it falls on deaf ears w/Ohio Delegate.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Some folks have no shame.

    They want to win so badly that they try to add rules/requirements to exclude better shooters from being able to compete. If someone has the ability to break 200 singles without practicing or shooting a zillion registered targets, more power to him/her.

    Michael Goines
     
  16. BLACK ICE

    BLACK ICE TS Member

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    ok maybe im not clear... If a guy is shooting real well at the time of the state shoot, he should be able to go sign up shoot penalty AA or AAA (which he is anyway) win the shoot having only shot those 200 targets that year. I just have a little problem with that !!! I have my targets in, suported the state assn. and the ATA all year. Who is the dumb one here... me Im broke and he is the CHAMP !!

    I guess this is only about a few, not the masses but fair or not ???

    rm, not really whining but seeing if Im the only one that feels this way.

    I guess I am...

    BLACK ICE
     
  17. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Black Ice, how often has this happened?
     
  18. BLACK ICE

    BLACK ICE TS Member

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    V10, aint once enuff !! but i happen to know 4 or 5 guys that try ever year. and they have been the champ and ru a few times.

    BLACK ICE
     
  19. pullll

    pullll Member

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    Blackice, I follow your reasoning. Yes there are great shooters who practice and practice but never shoot ATA targets at their local club. They go to state and are penalized to the 25 and maybe A. Truth known,. they are AA 27s any way. Only cost the $3.00 for 25 practice but closer to $6.00 plus fees to shoot ATAs at their home club. Then go to state and plunk down fees once a year and play the purses. I see this in Florida and at my home club. Is it fair? ?? but it is legal. I could vent with you but it's hopeless.
     
  20. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    If you are so incensed by this, I imagine that you've taken it up with your State Association, correct?

    And what was their response?
     
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