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why does my POI not move

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Beancounter, Feb 27, 2007.

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  1. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

    Joined:
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    maclellan1911 - If you do not change anything else except to raise the height of your comb, the space you see between the beads on the rib should continue to increase. Moving a Browning comb all the way up should move that pattern by Feet downrange. Assuming you are checking your POI from a rest at about 13 yards, where is the pattern with the comb down (shoot 4 - 5 shells) and where is it when the comb is up (4 - 5 more shells).

    If the thing shoots crooked - as in left or right - get rid of the gun because the barrel is bent and you cannot fix it by moving the comb around. we move the comb left or right for personal comfort and a consistent and repeatable gun mount.
     
  2. mono1393

    mono1393 Member

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    Move comb to right-you move POI right (windage)

    Move comb to left-you move POI left (windage)

    Move comb up-you move POI up (elevation)

    Move comb down-you move POI down (elevation)

    You may not be mounting the gun the same everytime, thus no notice of change of impact. Your impact should change at 40yds about 2-4 in. with a 1/8-1/4 inch move of the comb.
     
  3. cecritz

    cecritz Member

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    How far away are you shooting to check your POI you should be back at least 30-40 yards from target and place your front bead so its touching bottom of aim point in center of pattern board

    If you are still trying to line up beads in figure 8 your POI wont change. The more space you put between the front and rear sight the higher your gun will shoot.Beads that look like this "8" , bottom bead just touching front bead should get you a little above center line

    beads that look like this "0" should get you shooting higher,the more space o
    the higher it should shoot

    also it is important to mount the same every time close your eyes and mount your gun when it feels right open your eyes and look at your beads how are they lined up? you should do this a couple of times trying not to move your head after you open your eyes. So you can see where you are really looking. Adjust your comb so your beads are lined up properly when you open your eyes then pattern to see what you get slightly move comb to get correct centerline and POI your looking for hope this helps
     
  4. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,313
    Location:
    Brillion, WI
    The first thing to do is as suggested by HaveGun... Pattern the gun as though you were shooting a rifle, squeeze the trigger using a solid rest. 13 yards is a good distance because you can multiply by 3 the distance from the center of the pattern to the bullseye marked on the pattern paper. This will let you know where the patten is likely to be when you shoot targets - approximately 33 yards.

    Only then will you know if your barrel is bent OR if you are doing something when you are shooting to cause the gun to shoot "crooked". You should have noticed more change in the POI than you did with the comb adjustments you made. That fact alone, suggests you may have an unrecognized flinch. That may not be true at all and is only a guess, given your experiences.

    The thing to learn is 'what is it", the gun or the shooter.

    Rollin
     
  5. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    482
    maclellan1911 - If you do not change anything else except to raise the height of your comb, the space you see between the beads on the rib should continue to increase. Moving a Browning comb all the way up should move that pattern by Feet downrange. Assuming you are checking your POI from a rest at about 13 yards, where is the pattern with the comb down (shoot 4 - 5 shells) and where is it when the comb is up (4 - 5 more shells).

    If the thing shoots crooked - as in left or right - get rid of the gun because the barrel is bent and you cannot fix it by moving the comb around. we move the comb left or right for personal comfort and a consistent and repeatable gun mount.
     
  6. mono1393

    mono1393 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    483
    Move comb to right-you move POI right (windage)

    Move comb to left-you move POI left (windage)

    Move comb up-you move POI up (elevation)

    Move comb down-you move POI down (elevation)

    You may not be mounting the gun the same everytime, thus no notice of change of impact. Your impact should change at 40yds about 2-4 in. with a 1/8-1/4 inch move of the comb.
     
  7. cecritz

    cecritz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    93
    How far away are you shooting to check your POI you should be back at least 30-40 yards from target and place your front bead so its touching bottom of aim point in center of pattern board

    If you are still trying to line up beads in figure 8 your POI wont change. The more space you put between the front and rear sight the higher your gun will shoot.Beads that look like this "8" , bottom bead just touching front bead should get you a little above center line

    beads that look like this "0" should get you shooting higher,the more space o
    the higher it should shoot

    also it is important to mount the same every time close your eyes and mount your gun when it feels right open your eyes and look at your beads how are they lined up? you should do this a couple of times trying not to move your head after you open your eyes. So you can see where you are really looking. Adjust your comb so your beads are lined up properly when you open your eyes then pattern to see what you get slightly move comb to get correct centerline and POI your looking for hope this helps
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,313
    Location:
    Brillion, WI
    The first thing to do is as suggested by HaveGun... Pattern the gun as though you were shooting a rifle, squeeze the trigger using a solid rest. 13 yards is a good distance because you can multiply by 3 the distance from the center of the pattern to the bullseye marked on the pattern paper. This will let you know where the patten is likely to be when you shoot targets - approximately 33 yards.

    Only then will you know if your barrel is bent OR if you are doing something when you are shooting to cause the gun to shoot "crooked". You should have noticed more change in the POI than you did with the comb adjustments you made. That fact alone, suggests you may have an unrecognized flinch. That may not be true at all and is only a guess, given your experiences.

    The thing to learn is 'what is it", the gun or the shooter.

    Rollin
     
  9. Irfner

    Irfner TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    88
    Be prepaired to spend some time at the patterning board. Center the comb left and right and lower it. Then shooting the patterning board raise the comb a little at a time and actualy measure the change of POI. Remember as the comb is raised a space will develope between the center and front bead. This is needed for the POI change. It is important to measure the change in POI at the board don't guess. And that is at 40 yards. You will not see as much change at shorted distances. Once the elevation is set check left and right. Be carefull not to cant the gun or this will cause a left-right error. Browning specs are pretty liberal for a new style XT elevation is 3 inches plus or minus six inches factory setting. Left and right is 0 plus or minus six inches. Use the left-right comb adjustment to make sure the beads are perfectly in line with each other and comfortable on your cheak. If the gun (not canted) still shoots off to one side then it may be time to get rid of it. I have had no success with Browning trying to fix such a problem.

    irfner
     
  10. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    Mr. Winston went over the close range POI check and even provided photos and comments. You can take advantage of someone elses hard work.
     
  11. Irfner

    Irfner TS Member

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    Aug 28, 2006
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    88
    I purchased a new XT late last year. Hated it. It shot low even though it was a Monti-Carlo comb. Didn't sit in my shoulder right etc. The bottom barrell shoots slightly higher than the top and I always liked them to be the same. I wrote and talked to Browning about it. Hense the specs in the thread above. I finaly sent this gun out to Greg Hissem and had the comb and butt plate made adjustable. I then took my time on the patterning board and eventually got the gun shooting where I wanted it. I made some small fine tuning adjustments after a few rounds on the line. It is now my favorite gun to shoot and I am glad I took the time to make it right. I hope yours works out as well for you.

    irfner
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Check your pattern at 30-40 yards. Check your POI at 13 yards from a rest. It requires about 10 shots on paper to accurately check either the pattern or the POI.

    It is foolish to try to change the POI before accurately determining what the POI actually is.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. doctordennis

    doctordennis TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    I'm dissapointed in your response Rollin! You know as well, or should know better than anyone, that raising the comb doesn't change the POI-- Raising your eye position does!! Now you can raise your comb and still squish your cheek down into it and see the exact same sight picture.

    cecritz
    Is the only one on this post that is actually letting this person know what they need to know to help his situation. I myself shoot an XT and I would agree that they shoot pretty flat and since I like to "float" the bird over my barrel I needed the POI raised. This was accomplished my setting my eye further above the comb, Then, and only then, did I raise the comb to meet my cheek spot. On an XT you have both the rib and barrel as fixed entities their relationship to one another will not change without major gunsmithing. Therefore the only way to change point of impact is to change your line of sight! Essentially by raising your head off your stock so that you are looking down onto the rib with the space between your beads, that is visible, increasing as you go up. So the full response to this question should be that you will need to increase the angle between your eye and your front bead. Simply accomplished by raising your head above your gun. While raising your comb will allow you to have the same feel and accomplish your objective if, AND ONLY IF, you put the raised comb in the same spot on your face as you did before you raised it. If your back to front bead relationship doesn't change it won't matter what you do to the stock!!!
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Sell the gun and buy one that hits where you are looking. HMB
     
  15. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Stack the beads,stack the beads, get a figure 8--you people are killing me--FORGET STACKING THE BEADS-- that crap is for BEGINNERS--it is merely a method to ensure that you cheek the gun in the same place every time.. LISTEN CAREFULLY, if you place your cheek on the gun in it's natural resting place without craning your neck,squishing your face hard down on the comb, or bobbing your head around,then you can adjust your poi by raising or lowering your comb--Who the hell cares how much rib you see between the beads? Place the FRONT bead at the 6 o'clock position on the pattern board target and fire about 4-5 shots at it at 35 yards--if 50 per cent of the pattern is above and 50 per cent below the target mark 'raise the comb about half an inch and try again until you get the poi you want. MOUNT YOUR GUN BY FEEL, with a 30 inch pattern you won't ever be off much.
     
  16. doctordennis

    doctordennis TS Member

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    If you are feeling more recoil it is because you are pressing your cheek into your stock. Relax your cheek on the comb and drop it a 16th of an inch if you still don't feel things are right.
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Mac, before you spend any money on this new gun, I've got to say you have at least some hints that all is not well with it. Before you spend any money on it, you surely should find out if it's ever going to be any good - there are plenty of unshootable guns circulating around after all. The POI test, off a rest from 13 yards, should _precede_ any thing else you might do. Maybe ut doesn't shoot straight, and no matter what you read here, shifting the comb is no (long term) solution. Or even short term, when it comes to that.

    Take the time, test the POI from a rest at 13 yards (nothing else counts), and determine that you at least have a possible shooter here, then go ahead and modify it to what you need. If it flunks, sell it.

    Neil
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear that, Mac. Plan on taking a lot of shots and writing down the result of each. It's quick, don't worry. While you are at it, shoot a few with the gun you are familiar with. Then sit down with your recorded data and see if there's anything to learn from it. Sometimes there isn't much to worry about and you can just go ahead knowing the result will be fine. Sometimes you just have more to think about.

    Neil
     
  19. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Maclellan 1911; There is nothing wrong with your gun, the problem is you. Virtually everyone who complains about their gun shooting off-center, say it shoots to the LEFT. They are all RIGHT HANDED. You are one of the few people I've ever heard whose gun shoots to the right, and you gave it away - acknowledging that you're left handed.
    Frequently a shooter will unconsciously pull the gun to the side with the hand holding the fore-end. Or if the gun doesn't fit perfectly, it will recoil off your shoulder in the opposite direction. For a right handed shooter, that will throw the shot to the left - the opposite for a left handed shooter, where it will go to the right.
    When you get the gun to fit you properly, the problem will fix itself. As far as shooting low, the Browning XT is a fairly flat shooting gun. Raising the comb should raise the POI. You will see space between the beads, and more of the rib. You'll get used to that and it shouldn't bother you.
     
  20. teleskier

    teleskier Member

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    Jan 26, 2007
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    I was shooting like crap today. I had my wife at the board with her gun so I decided to see what mine was doing for the heck of it. After all my trials I ended up with the same two spacers in my comb that I started with writing it off to shooter error today.

    I found with my Citori Plus, just by adding one 1/16" spacer that it raised my POI by a good 6"'s or more at 35 yds.

    Its really funny listening to people who are old hats at the shooting game. At the club today was a great ol guy who shoots a Perazzi. He was standing with another gentleman talking about POI and that to change it he had to move his rib. So I walked over and explained POI is determined by the comb. I think he felt I was full of it so I just left it alone until he actually goes to the board and sees for himself.
     
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