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¿ Why do scores & yards differ East & West

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by goatskin, Jul 13, 2010.

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  1. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    There are a lot of anecdotes on here about Western scores being higher than Eastern scores.

    Or that 27yd shooters are common on the ground in Utah, Montana, Nevada, SoCal ... and as scarce as chicken lips 'back-East'.

    Or that a 94 will place as often as not east of the Mississippi, but in Utah, if you drop two birds, ... well, you are now shooting squadded practice.

    Are these seastories, or is there some truth there, and why?


    Bob
     
  2. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a big game fishing license????
     
  3. Logan_p

    Logan_p TS Member

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    you can shoot allot more targets in the nicer weather all year round...
     
  4. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    <i>Do you have a big game fishing license???? </i>

    Nah, Jim, no trolling (this time, anyhow) and I can't remember a thread about this specifically, but Pocatello got me to thinking today, and there was a comment a couple of days ago that quite a few b.dogs got their Grand Slam out west, etc.

    Pat(?) commented that it was backgrounds that was the difference, prolly.

    Recently on all the handicap moaning-and-groaning, there are several comments abt small eastern clubs never see a 27yd shooter, etc.

    Last year sometime, there were some back-and-forth ... Walker?, maybe? abt how westerners didn't see the tough eastern birds ...

    You folks up there in Baja Canada have a different set of problems with high scores, but still have your share of oversized canines.

    Down south, we have heat, humidity, wind and bugs ...

    Maybe Vernal IS the perfect place to shoot?

    Bob
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Most places, air density will account for the whole thing. And not in target flight of course, in pattern density.

    Neil
     
  6. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Out here in the West and especially the Southwest ... we shoot all year around.
    Plus the air is dry and we set the traps a lot better.

    Just about the time you have shaken off the rust from setting around all winter and bitching on TS.com ... it is time to put away the guns again (back East).
     
  7. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    <i>Most places, air density will account for the whole thing. And not in target flight of course, in pattern density. </i>

    Ahhhhh ... less air in the air: holds velocity a bit better, a bit longer; less pellet deflection ...

    Got it.
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Sooo, East coast hot air around D.C will increase/decrease scoring?
     
  9. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Whats up with the ¿¿¿ ??? Wayne
     
  10. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    question tag?
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    What I want to know is, how do you even TYPE a ¿
     
  12. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Goatskin, chicken lips are in Kentucky....I've seen a pair.

    My scores have come down since I moved to Kansas from the east coast, btw. It's a lot more difficult to shoot in 30-40 mph winds.
     
  13. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    So. East corner PA
    Here's a lure:

    I have shot many times in Salt Lake and once in Phoenix, live in Mid-Atlantic. Not only is the air dryer but the Western targets are set much higher. Having shot out west, I am often disappointed that we in the East are shooting targets which often are set at 8 ft. high, at their peak. Many times angle targets max. at six feet. Some clubs just don't seem to get it and set targets ( I guess ) to please the older shooters who began their careers with 50 / 50 impact Remington's and Model 12's.

    The problem, the flatter the target thrown the smaller the surface area to shoot. Measure a target from it's side view, then calculate it's area from the top (circle). You'll see it's about twice as big. When you throw a target at a higher angle and peak it has a larger surface area; up to ~50%. Ergo, Western shooters have a larger target area to shoot.

    JT
     
  14. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know there was a significant difference in the scores or yardage between the east and west. But of course if that is an actual fact it would have to do with our natural superiority out here in the open spaces:)

    Or more realistically I would believe more days available for shooting out west. We do contend with a lot of wind but not alot of precipitation. Most places are low humidity and moderate elevation which would support what Neil is saying about the effect of air density on shot ballistics.

    Does anyone have some data to support GoatSkin's question?

    Also I think the upside down ? is symbolic of an alternative lifestyle, check out Blue Oyster Cult if you don't quite get it.
     
  15. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    I 'eyeballed' a 'money shoot': Uintah Basin and the two 'best' state shoots: Ohio & Pennsylvania for cap scores and HAA.

    The formats were not directly comparable, and I didn't have full listings of shooters, so 'eyeball' was about all I did.

    There was some interchange of people, but not many, and through 10 or so places and the classes, the scores at Vernal were higher.

    At the Tuscon Grand, and the two Winter Grands at the Dollar, the scores were about the same, but a little lower than big shoots later in the year.

    I agree that shooting year-round has a lot to do with it, and especially when it comes to picking up a few half-yards in a season.

    Bob
     
  16. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    <blockquote> recurvyarcher: <i>"What I want to know is, how do you even TYPE a ¿ "</i></blockquote>

    I don't know how YOU do it, but I draw it freehand, then take a pikker, download and run it through PotoChop to pretty it up, some, then I 'Bob Lawless' it where I need it.

    And I take your point about wind on the Great Plains. When I heard that the ATA was considering Amarillo for permanent homegrounds, my first thought was that the EC would - every one - be lynched by the end of Prelim week.

    My second thought was, of course, they wouldn't ... but only because there aren't any trees in Amarillo ... the perma-breeze uproots everything green over 8" high.

    Bob
     
  17. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    In the past the enforcement of rules was different between the East and the West. An oldtimer on the Central Handicap Committee could fill in the details if he wanted to.
     
  18. BFJ201

    BFJ201 TS Member

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    You ain't never been to Amarillo have you, Bob? They got some 10" & 12" high shrubs out there in the Panhandle.:) But I tell you we've got our state shoot up in Amarillo or down in San Antonio and I think I'd rather take the wind and 110 degree heat in Amarillo in July than the 100 degrees and humidity in San Antonio. But both great places to shoot but not real conducive to shooting high scores.

    James Allen
     
  19. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    10-12", eh? Still not tall enough to lynch midgets.

    I like Amarillo & surrounds & have kinfolks thereabouts, too. Speaking-to kinfolks, even!

    As far as SA goes, sometimes you can get double-lucky, and THEN you get to enjoy plenty of mosquitoes the next few days.

    This was the first day of this year's Texas State Shoot on that bald hill in Helotes. (credit to Mike Hessong, Victoria Skeet & Trap Club ... MH* here on TS.com)


    [​IMG]
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I fully agree with Neil that air density is the prime factor. That results in less deformation of the pattern. Dry air is not the key. Adding humidity to air actually decreases the air density. Better background and greater uV light intensity are additional factors that improve target visibility.

    Many Western states have more wind than we have in the South, but the wind is rather constant and from the same direction (SW). It is not difficult to set good targets in a constant wind. In the South, the wind can change directions and intensity between calling for the bird and shooting the bird. It is not uncommon on one post to have two good birds, two birds way too high and one way too low.

    Pat Ireland
     
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