1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Why aren't surgeons traumatized?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by rpeerless, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    While exposed to the inner workings of God's creation on a daily basis, why aren't surgeons traumatized by blood and gore?

    Do they have to read The Little Prince ten times a day or what?
     
  2. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    JONO2,

    Thanks for reading. Tramatized is traumatized without morning coffee and a dictionary. Thanks also for the correction.

    I still am traumatized by ALGORE and other dems as well.
     
  3. jhoward

    jhoward Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    827
    They are, at least at times. There's a reason that most ER's and trauma centers are manned by doctors doing their residency, they burn out fast.

    I used to shoot with a guy who was an EMT. Shot with him for several years, great guy. One spring night when the local high school was holding Prom a group of kids drove into a nearby city for an after prom party, no drinking was involved. On the way home they ALL fell asleep, including the driver. Car drifted over and hit the guard rail. It started spinning, went up onto the guard rail where the fuel tank ruptured. All six high schoolers inside burned to death. My friend's unit was the first on the scene. He was never the same man again or at least not while I was still in contact with him.
     
  4. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Is it the cartharsis? The horror of having to accept one's death in that way especially if it's someone familiar? Is this why terrorists capitalize on that very paralyzing concept of thought?

    Hence the concept in The Little Prince, that the body is like a sea shell, when the contents are gone the shell remains and one doesn't get upset when one sees a sea shell.

    I can recall a retired surgeon author who wrote, of all things, horror stories. He chuckled and remarked how he could take biology, science and ntural wonder and turn it into horror. He was quite good at it but can't remember his name right now.
     
  5. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Driver's ed in the 60's used what was known as the "Ohio Films". Watching was optional. One film did show a burned out car accident and the victims in the morgue which included a seven year old girl. Early seventies the films were done away with as "too horrible".
     
  6. trapshootinkid25

    trapshootinkid25 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    28
    Blood in surgery is not the "blood and gore" one thinks of in horror films. Yes, some things are more shocking than others, especially when talking about trauma surgery or the like, but you get used to it. There will always be cases where the injuries are tough to handle (and by that I mean even look at, like a newborn with 3rd degree burns) but imagine what the patient is going through.

    Surgery itself is very depersonalized. Everything except the surgical site is covered. The blood and whatnot, then, is no different than what you experience with cleaning a deer or a squirrel, right?

    As for the comment above about high burn out rates why residents run things, that's totally incorrect. Residents are in ERs to learn. By definition, they have an attending overseeing them. Most surgeons have very long careers. Burnout occurs from the long hours more than anything, and most hospitals have programs in place to help prevent this (ID burnout early, etc.). Very very rarely (I don't know any personal cases actually) will a surgeon burn out because of a poor outcome or horrific case, contrary to what Hollywood would have you think.

    By the way, I'm an MD and a surgical resident. Hope this clears some things up.D
     
  7. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    841
    Location:
    TEXAS
    Being a surgeon or er/emt in't the same as having to fight. When it is kill or be killed or when you see your buddy standing next to you take one, it leaves you with a different perspective. Those of you who have been there understand. Those who havent, just dont understand.

    Bob W
     
  8. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Read something to the effect that mourning and grief were selfish emotions because the person is not there to benefit from it.

    It is our way of missing the presence of that person's being in our life, a loss, and so we are in fact feeling sorry for ourselves.

    If in fact the person who passed is in a better place (don't want to impose on your belief systems), they would not want you to feel bad.
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    texaszephyr, you hit the nail on the head. Maurice ( The Brit. )
     
  10. Drew Hause

    Drew Hause Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    AZ but dreaming of KS
    texaszephyr - please share your personal experience standing over a young soldier bleeding to death while you are desperately searching for the bullet hole in his aorta, but can't see anything because of all the blood, which anesthesia can't pump fast enough to maintain his blood pressure, and if you don't find it RIGHT NOW he is going to die.

    "Those who haven't, just don't understand." Delegitimizing someone else's trauma doesn't accomplish anything.

    Self-reported substance abuse and dependence are highest among psychiatrists, anesthesiologists, and emergency physicians, and lowest among pediatricians and surgeons however (and they usually have very different personalities). The cardio-thoracic and trauma surgeons I know are pretty tough men and women.
     
  11. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Perhaps there are different types of trauma, some that can be overcome and some that can not and is the key personality? Would like to think there is real hope for many that suffer from traumatic stress.

    The terrorists don't experience it or are they terrorists because of it?

    If the terrorists don't experience it how do we strenghten our society to overcome it?
     
  12. Drew Hause

    Drew Hause Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,437
    Location:
    AZ but dreaming of KS
    Sociopaths are incapable of empathy.
    Terrorists dehumanize 'the enemy' - who could be innocent children.
    Mix in a little (false) religion for self-justification and they can actually feel good about themselves.
     
  13. Avatar

    Avatar TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    303
    If a terrorist were a sociopath, it would certainly make for a better terrorist. But, I suspect most true sociopaths would never become terrorists for the simple reason they don't have normal emotions about the doings of others. I believe there are studies showing that terrorists usually start off as "normal," but experience loss, personal frustration and hopelessness, or, religious or ideological fervor, then fall into the clutches of an ideology or organization that uses them as a weapon. With some of the more "lone wolf" types, like Timothy McVeigh, brain disorders such as PTSD probably play a role.
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Suicide bombers don't need to worry about feeling guilt.
     
  15. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,866
    One does not have the luxury (for want of a better word) of emotion when you are focused on a procedure that needs to be done immediately if you are to save your patient's life. If you are to function effectively, you learn to subjugate your "feelings" during this decision-making process.
     
  16. tomaso

    tomaso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    46
    I am a surgeon in practice for 23 years. now private but inner city trauma for 8. I believe the big difference between surgery and trauma is the reason you are there. as a surgeon you are trained to do a job and become involved in the process. at a trauma it is unplanned and there is no process. the "level-headed" ones create a process to stay on task and control their emotions. I imagine that is the role of training in many fields, be it soldier, police, fire, pilot. recognize and execute. I hate to be involved outside of my own area i.e. on a plane or at a traffic accident. I don't feel that is my forte. I will try to keep you alive but it will be more traumatic for me than any of my surgeries. I defer to the emts when they arrive as this is there stage..tom mc