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Why Any Classification at all...?!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by spitter, Oct 29, 2011.

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  1. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I put in my $0.02 regarding "industry classification"... a concept that must have worked for some reason, since it existed for 70 years... be that as it may, I have a different question...

    "Why there is ANY classification at all?!" We break out groups based upon a couple targets, a few feet here and there, puberty and breasts.

    Why not just shoot targets based upon raw scores and let the top shooters on any given day - albeit many of the same few shooters we all know and LOVE, get the few injection-molded, leather embossed, chinese-fabricated trophies that are available? Let's scrap average, handicap and special classification altogether...

    Kids need a learning experience and trap is not T-Ball or Soccer - everyone doesn't win... let them learn to lose and lose often - early... the few who learn to function off anti-depressants and Ritalin will rise to the top and will become the future "Big Dogs" of our discipline...

    Ladies need no special consideration - Gloria Steinem and her group all proved that years ago... what physical challenge does any "lady" face on the trap line not experience by a man?! I want to hear from the ladies that they are NOT as good as a man...

    Vets and Senior Vets... why any consideration here?! Their only handicap is extra life experience - and if life hasn't taught them that whatever life has giveth, life can taketh away, well then... so the skillset went - loss of coordination, vision, balance, motor function... there's no pill for those, so it's time to bow out gracefully... you had your time in sun - mentor your grandchildren and shoot practice...

    Trap is a tough game and if kids, gals and old folks can't hack it, playing against the majority of middle-aged white guys, there is always swimming, Badminton and Shuffle Board...

    One day, today's Big Dogs, men and ladies will be come infirm, lose their skills and a few new "dogs" will show us all how its done... then we can bitch and complain about them!

    Best regards all,

    Jay
     
  2. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Another Troll?
     
  3. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I ain't no troll... let me have it!

    Jay
     
  4. mikkeeh

    mikkeeh Active Member

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    I like it!.....At any big shoot it takes a 98-99 to win in "D" class. Not much difference from 99-100 in AA. I think it makes sense.
     
  5. slipping into darkness

    slipping into darkness TS Member

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    Well all shooting should be done like this, gun lay on ground, call for bird, pick up gun an load an fire. this will stop all the crying, but of course the tall people will probably claim the short ones have an advantage, so too avoid a problem everyone will have to lay on the ground to start except Hcp shooter, and if there's a problem, as "Bill Clinton" or someone said, just pass it will fix it later. OH-Yaaaa, now lets go shoot the New Way!
     
  6. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Good question.

    I'd guess that it would be hard to convince a 13 year old that he should shoot against Harlan. And women generally have this thing about not wanting to stand out in a group of men. If you think the older shooters don't have a disadvantage, watch a guy with a case of essential tremors try to track a hard right off 5.

    Mike K
     
  7. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    Because everybody likes to go home and say they "won".
    Mike
     
  8. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    The "Lewis Class System" was developed to do just that, "classify" shooters in an event based on the score they just shot in that event.

    It's now predominately used as a money option, but it works just as well for trophy determination.

    Using a Lewis Class System, D Class would never be won with a 100 straight.
     
  9. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    <I>"Using a Lewis Class System, D Class would never be won with a 100 straight."</I>

    But wouldn't the class structure change from event to event depending on the scores or the number of entries? Could a shooter in D class at one event end up in C class at another?

    Mike K
     
  10. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but that happens now. Most large shoots "move up" class winners or high scores to the next higher class.
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Vets and Senior Vets... why any consideration here?! Their only handicap is extra life experience - and if life hasn't taught them that whatever life has giveth, life can taketh away, well then... so the skillset went - loss of coordination, vision, balance, motor function... there's no pill for those, so it's time to bow out gracefully... you had your time in sun - mentor your grandchildren and shoot practice..."

    Real class Jay these shooter that may have supported this sport and promoted it. Through decades gone by, decades of dedication that were their years of enjoyment. Now when they may have a diminished ability but not a diminished desire to compete on an equal bases.

    Your thought is go away and don't bother us as we don't have the inclination to tolerate you anymore. Allowing them a peer group that they might compete with on a equal bases. You say go find something else to do, sorry not a lot a class there Jay, JMO

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    In part (most of it) I agree to get rid of the class system....why not go with a:

    1 - Excellent

    2 - Good

    3 - Above Average

    4 - Average

    5 - Below Average (Coordination Challenged)

    6 - Worst (Should not have a loaded gun around humans)

    7 - Stay Away (we all know folks like these)

    No more ATA trophies to the states. With the monetary savings the ATA could build some shade structures at Sparta, maybe even a decent motel near the grounds?

    or

    Do like the sporting clay weenies and just give everybody a trophy that signs up and pays....

    Curt

    FEAB9
    [​IMG]
     
  13. hfrogdogc

    hfrogdogc Member

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    Thanks ivanhoe
     
  14. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    I had a discussion with a lady just today who has been shooting trap for a year.

    I asked her if she was shooting ATA and she said no, as she was waiting until she got better.

    Making a long story short, I explained the class system to her and even recommended a few clubs that she could visit that offer several target only shoots a year so she could get her feet wet, and I come here and see a movement to do away with classification....
     
  15. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Joe, but despite what some here would like to believe, one post does not a "movement" make.
     
  16. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    but some posts do kinda resemble a "movement"
     
  17. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I have nothing but the utmost respect for my elders. But folks with diminished skillsets are not the only folks in Vet/Sr. Vet classes... figure out how to compensate for that and I'd consider retracting my opinion.

    Is it fair to say a really good shooter won the $100K in Sparta?! Is that particular kid an abnormality of human genetics?! So why special classification for the other 50 weeks a year.

    Conversely, why can a healthy 65 year old NOT compete just as effectively as someone 1/2 his age?! Let's not make this an attack on older folks, its about competition.

    Respectfully,

    Jay
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Jay why is there a seniors tour in bowling, and Golf? You guys are always comparing other sports to trap. If they have them why should trap be different.

    "Let's not make this an attack on older folks, its about competition."

    That is exactly what the category Vet and Sr Vet are about keeping the same diminished skillsets shooting those of the same skillset. Beside that you are the one that made this an attack on older folks.

    "loss of coordination, vision, balance, motor function... there's no pill for those, so it's time to bow out gracefully... you had your time in sun - mentor your grandchildren and shoot practice..."

    At least that is the way that statement strikes.

    Just what prompted this chain of thought to begin with it certainly doesn't follow the other resent threads???? It won't replace the industry class you seem to favor.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. The Literalist

    The Literalist Well-Known Member

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    Jay, mark me down in your corner. That's the way it SHOULD be.

    Class D?? Good grief.
     
  20. tgs1420

    tgs1420 TS Member

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    No class Sandbagging if it were all Lewis. I like it. 5 classes. 1 winner per class. Ties divide cash shoot-off or reverse score for trophy.
     
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