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Why a high POI required

16K views 93 replies 44 participants last post by  zzt 
#1 ·
Could it be the gap created by some shooters that "float" the target?

Could that "float" gap at 16 yards be an 1", and 3-4" at 27 yards?. You'll also have +/- 4" of shot drop on that 27 yard target. Less on the 16 yard target.

Open to comments on a wet Monday.
 
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#4 ·
Harry, are you saying Ray Stafford aims his shotgun with his 32 inch high pattern? Or Harlan Campbell does with his 25 inch high pattern? Evidently you haven't watched these guys shoot very much? How about Larry Gravestock? 4 foot high??

Required POIs depend on how one tracks or attacks a clay. I find it much easier to point my finger AT a moving object than guess how far under or above it may be? My best POI may not work at all for someone else so its up to each to find his own best POI.

Hap
 
#5 ·
If you think about floating the bird and the gap you will not shoot well, you have to concentrate on the bird and not the bead or any of that. Really high shooters hold high and don't move the gun vertically much if any, it's just a horizontal swing and let the shot go when the bird gets in view above the gun. The high POI takes care of the vertical movement. The tricky part with that set up is when it's windy and the birds don't act normal.
 
#6 ·
NOT required but in trap you're usually shooting at a rising target and most people don't like to "cover" the target they like to see it above their bbl.

So if YOU are comfortable touching or covering the target you will shoot just as well as those who like a high POI. It's all up to you. ENJOY what is comfortable to YOU. Ross Puls
 
#7 ·
I touch the target at 16yds and 27 yds with my 20"inch POI reesults are smoke.

I do not float a bird except shooting buddies when partner misses his target
then it is a matter if it is still rising or on the way down and this can be little float or a foot or two.


Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 
#12 ·
You guys mentioning another shot charge fall of 4 more inches is off the mark guys! A plain barreled shotgun is regulated to shoot a 50/50 pattern at 40 yards! The shot charge doesn't drop another 4 inches at that distance! The 4 inches of drop is measured from the centerline of the bore, a bead placed on top of the barrel seen over the receiver top makes it a 50/50 deal(POI).

The easiest way of seeing this is with a 1 ounce slug at trap velocities, or, a 1-1/4 oz slug. Regulated with the bead height, they drop the same amount as shot of equal weight at equal velocities and distances of 40 yards.

Hap
 
#16 ·
Gunner you account for gravity when you set your POI for the distance you intend to break the bird, +or- a few yards from that point the drop is insignificant.

Hap comparing a slug to birdshot is ok up to 25 yds maybe, but after that the slug will not lose it's velocity nearly as much as the individual bird shot pellets will. Therefore comparing POI at 40 yds might not be valid. Perhaps Neil has a chart?
 
#17 ·
My POI is about 8 or 9 inches high at 40 yards. What is wrong because I literally could not tell you if my bead was 8" under or just under a bird when both eyes are open. With a patch on my left lens I have more of a clue but I can't shoot very well that way.
 
#18 ·
SBE, I thought according to the Newton guy that weight drops at the same rate of fall but one may be farther out?

Neil, of course they come from factories in all sorts of shapes and flavors, some even as a Monday Gun (not worth a crap). Adding in an extra fall of 4 inches isn't correct either which was the point.

Hap
 
#19 ·
Mike, If you can shoot consistant good scores with out seeing the barrel or bead in soft focus, I'd say that's a good thing! Why some see the bead/barrel in soft focus and some don't....I don't know.

I'd like to hear Stafford or Harlan describe what they see with those high POI's.
 
#21 ·
Nobody answered the original question exactly. The reason we shoot with high points of impact is that it allows us to shoot at the bird without covering it up with the barrel. That takes some of the variability out of the equation. When you cover the bird, even for a split second you don't know what it is doing in that moment.
 
#22 ·
Physics supports your contention that #8s drop more than #7 1/2s, assuming they both travel the same horizontal distance from the muzzle with the same muzzle velocity.

With the same muzzle velocity, the 8s slow down at a faster rate (and won't travel as far) and will be moving slower at a given distance. Because they are moving slower at a given distance, the time spent "flying" is longer and they have had more time to drop vertically. How much? Not much and hard to measure unless you chrongraph the shot at 45 yards and compare the speeds of 8 vs 7 1/2s. 4 inches of vertical drop at 45 yards seems reasonable to me for small shot.

I understand the physics.......it is the shooting consistency that sometimes baffles me! If I am thinking about all of this when I am shooting I am SOL!
 
#23 ·
Move a little quicker and/or keep the gun moving and you can smoke targets with a flat shooting gun without covering them up. When I do everything right I have the same visual as in the original pic and I use a flat shooter. I think covering the target is always a mistake, but you can get away with it a little more with a flat shooter.

I'm pretty new to this game but I've been shooting 20K clay targets a year for 20 years. I have the sense that most trap shooters who chase targets, as opposed to those who take a very high hold and "trap" them, barely float the target regardles of their static POI.

AM I off base? Riddle me this....do any of you with high shooters ever see anything like a 1 foot gap, or do you actaully crowd the target within a few inches?
 
#24 ·
I can tell you what Stafford and Harlan see. They see the bird, and the bird only. There is no way possible, to be consistant, if you even "Think" about looking for the beads. Even the "Soft Focus". The key word is "Think". If you shoot a gun long enough your brain calculates where the barrel is in relation to your front hand, subconsciously, (eye hand cordination). If you can point at a moving target with your finger, then the brain should be able to do the same with the barrel being in the hand.

If you concentrate on the target, and follow through every target, eventually with repetition, consistancy will come. If you "Think" at all during this process, you are going to hear "LOSS" in the very near future. It is that simple. IMO. Jon
 
#25 ·
Why a high POI required? Well...it's not required, but most trap shooters prefer a high POI so the target is always visible.

Speaking strickly about the "Site picture" and the "float or gap" that you see before you pull or release the trigger is different for everyone. I've come to the conclusion that not everyone see the same thing that's why everyone says something different.

Personally, my site picture for the 16 yrd. has a larger gap or float compared to my yardage. But, thats me. Anyone else out there have the same experience?
 
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