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Why 1 1/8s?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by bigclown, Jul 20, 2007.

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  1. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    510
    Why are "trap" loads defined as being 1 1/8 oz. of shot? How was this "carved in stone"? Seems like any suggestion of using lighter loads is disregarded as being unworthy of "real" trapshooters...you should use "all the shot you can"! So, why not 1 1/4 oz....1 3/8 oz....or more? If 1 1/8 will be more certain to crush targets than lighter loads, wouldn't allowing more shot permit shooters to be even more competitive? Just asking and trying to learn the history of the 1 1/8 oz. limit, because anytime anyone even suggests they can enjoy lighter loads and still shoot scores acceptable to them, they get 'flamed' - so I am getting my flame retardant suit on for this comment. Best Regards, Ed
     
  2. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    3,671
    I do not think a history is needed. Everyone is trying to make an excuse to shoot less shot. Here is the senario if your ability is missing two every hundred, then you miss two because you shoot 1oz, and only took a little dust off two, your average is 96/100..........in the long run not competitive. When you look at this on a grand scale, you need every target you can get. When a person decides to use less shot they just handicap themselves.

    GS
     
  3. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    4,355
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Ed -

    You go guy!

    Having to shoot steel shot, factory 1oz are even too punishing for my stout frame. I've been working on developing much lighter loads to push boundaries.

    I suppose for the competitive ATA shooter, getting every last pellet of allowable lead is a necessity - one can't compete at 16 unless you can reliably break a couple 100s. But if we look at International Trap - don;t they shoot 24 gram (7/8).

    For my recreational shooting, my personal challenge is how to break 'em all with the lightest possible/ballistically efficent load.

    My regular loads are only .74 oz steel in 12 gauge; the 20 tops out at .58 oz and my new .410 load is a meager .32 oz.

    You only needs 3-4 pieces of shot to break a darn target...but if I could only figure out which 3-4 pellets to load...

    I say go light or stay home!

    Jay Spitz
     
  4. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You won't get "flamed" by me. I went to a 1 oz load and am very happy with the performance. As far as the history behind 1 1/8 oz loads being the "standard" for target loads; I have no idea. I know personally an individual who has been shooting 1 oz. loads for years and he has enjoyed the status of having been an "All American" shooter. He shoots his 16 yd, doubles and 27 yard handicap targets with nothing but 1 oz. loads. Ed
     
  5. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    1,994
    The reason you don't shoot 11/4 oz is it is against the rules.11/8 oz is the maximum payload allowed.The argument for 1 oz is less recoil and cheaper to load.I can honestly say I see no difference in target breaking power with 1 oz.But,I am a 20.5 yard shooter.Even when we are playing games I shoot 1 oz at 1350 fps from 30 to 35 yards from the house and have no problem breaking targets with a nice tight choke.I experimented with 11/8 of 8.5 shot out of a mod. choke from the 16 and my scores were the same and the recoil was worse.I load all of my trap loads at 1200 fps.If you are shooting from the 16 or short yardage in caps IMHO 1 oz is all you need.Just don't load them so fast that you lose the benefit of less recoil or you are defeating your purpose.Shoot well.By the way getting flamed you should consider a badge of honor.Consider who is doing the flaming.Lol

    Darr Wilson
     
  6. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
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    3,586
    There are some shooters out there who need the 1-1/8oz loads because they lack the ability to overcome there mind ... there mind tells them that there is more shot in a 1-1/8oz load so it has a better percentage of breaking the target ... there mind tells them this and they believe it to be true.

    It is true but they have not taught there mind that it aint the load, it aint the gun and it aint nothing else except the shooter that breaks the target ... they let there mind control them and tell them that they actually need all the help they can get to break that target so they must shoot and only shoot 1-1/8oz loads.

    If the shooter is good they can break the bird with a freakin 1/2oz of shot ... if the shooter does what they are supposed to do.
     
  7. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
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    darr ... you aint shooting 1oz @ 1350fps all the time are you? Isn't that past the legalities of allowability?
     
  8. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
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    1,761
    Just remember that 1 1/4 was the standard and then it went to 1 1/8 along with the SAME crys of anguish and poo-pooing that we hear right now when someone suggests 1oz be the standard. What it boils down to is this, you are free to shoot whatever you choose to up to the "legal limit" for registered trap. In my own case when I miss a bird an extra ounce of shot would not have helped because I did something wrong. It has been quite a while since a bird sailed on that I felt should have broken.
    for myself I have shot a lot of 7/8s for practice and then used the 1oz or 1 1/8oz for matches. My registered scores have been a little higher with 1oz than 1 1/8oz loads and if I look at all my targets over the last 2 years my 7/8oz scores are equal to my 1oz.
    --- Chip King ---
     
  9. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    510
    Why are "trap" loads defined as being 1 1/8 oz. of shot? How was this "carved in stone"? Seems like any suggestion of using lighter loads is disregarded as being unworthy of "real" trapshooters...you should use "all the shot you can"! So, why not 1 1/4 oz....1 3/8 oz....or more? If 1 1/8 will be more certain to crush targets than lighter loads, wouldn't allowing more shot permit shooters to be even more competitive? Just asking and trying to learn the history of the 1 1/8 oz. limit, because anytime anyone even suggests they can enjoy lighter loads and still shoot scores acceptable to them, they get 'flamed' - so I am getting my flame retardant suit on for this comment. Best Regards, Ed
     
  10. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,671
    I do not think a history is needed. Everyone is trying to make an excuse to shoot less shot. Here is the senario if your ability is missing two every hundred, then you miss two because you shoot 1oz, and only took a little dust off two, your average is 96/100..........in the long run not competitive. When you look at this on a grand scale, you need every target you can get. When a person decides to use less shot they just handicap themselves.

    GS
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,355
    Location:
    Prairie State
    Ed -

    You go guy!

    Having to shoot steel shot, factory 1oz are even too punishing for my stout frame. I've been working on developing much lighter loads to push boundaries.

    I suppose for the competitive ATA shooter, getting every last pellet of allowable lead is a necessity - one can't compete at 16 unless you can reliably break a couple 100s. But if we look at International Trap - don;t they shoot 24 gram (7/8).

    For my recreational shooting, my personal challenge is how to break 'em all with the lightest possible/ballistically efficent load.

    My regular loads are only .74 oz steel in 12 gauge; the 20 tops out at .58 oz and my new .410 load is a meager .32 oz.

    You only needs 3-4 pieces of shot to break a darn target...but if I could only figure out which 3-4 pellets to load...

    I say go light or stay home!

    Jay Spitz
     
  12. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You won't get "flamed" by me. I went to a 1 oz load and am very happy with the performance. As far as the history behind 1 1/8 oz loads being the "standard" for target loads; I have no idea. I know personally an individual who has been shooting 1 oz. loads for years and he has enjoyed the status of having been an "All American" shooter. He shoots his 16 yd, doubles and 27 yard handicap targets with nothing but 1 oz. loads. Ed
     
  13. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,994
    The reason you don't shoot 11/4 oz is it is against the rules.11/8 oz is the maximum payload allowed.The argument for 1 oz is less recoil and cheaper to load.I can honestly say I see no difference in target breaking power with 1 oz.But,I am a 20.5 yard shooter.Even when we are playing games I shoot 1 oz at 1350 fps from 30 to 35 yards from the house and have no problem breaking targets with a nice tight choke.I experimented with 11/8 of 8.5 shot out of a mod. choke from the 16 and my scores were the same and the recoil was worse.I load all of my trap loads at 1200 fps.If you are shooting from the 16 or short yardage in caps IMHO 1 oz is all you need.Just don't load them so fast that you lose the benefit of less recoil or you are defeating your purpose.Shoot well.By the way getting flamed you should consider a badge of honor.Consider who is doing the flaming.Lol

    Darr Wilson
     
  14. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,586
    There are some shooters out there who need the 1-1/8oz loads because they lack the ability to overcome there mind ... there mind tells them that there is more shot in a 1-1/8oz load so it has a better percentage of breaking the target ... there mind tells them this and they believe it to be true.

    It is true but they have not taught there mind that it aint the load, it aint the gun and it aint nothing else except the shooter that breaks the target ... they let there mind control them and tell them that they actually need all the help they can get to break that target so they must shoot and only shoot 1-1/8oz loads.

    If the shooter is good they can break the bird with a freakin 1/2oz of shot ... if the shooter does what they are supposed to do.
     
  15. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,586
    darr ... you aint shooting 1oz @ 1350fps all the time are you? Isn't that past the legalities of allowability?
     
  16. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,761
    Just remember that 1 1/4 was the standard and then it went to 1 1/8 along with the SAME crys of anguish and poo-pooing that we hear right now when someone suggests 1oz be the standard. What it boils down to is this, you are free to shoot whatever you choose to up to the "legal limit" for registered trap. In my own case when I miss a bird an extra ounce of shot would not have helped because I did something wrong. It has been quite a while since a bird sailed on that I felt should have broken.
    for myself I have shot a lot of 7/8s for practice and then used the 1oz or 1 1/8oz for matches. My registered scores have been a little higher with 1oz than 1 1/8oz loads and if I look at all my targets over the last 2 years my 7/8oz scores are equal to my 1oz.
    --- Chip King ---
     
  17. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    The more shot you have in a load, the larger the pattern can be (more open choke) and still have sufficient pattern density to break the targets.

    A 1oz load will have the same pattern density as a 1 1/8oz load only if the gun throws a slightly smaller pattern. The one ounce load will break targets just as well as a heavier payload, but gives you a slightly smaller margin of (pointing) error providing you choke optimally. Etc. Etc.

    That's why a shooter shooting 1/2oz loads (such as in a .410) has greater difficulty in posting competitive scores: in order for a 1/2oz load to have sufficient pattern density to break targets consistently, the pattern has to be so small that only the very top experts can point their guns well enough/consistently enough to produce competitive scores.

    Why is 1 1/8oz the max legal payload for organized trap? Probably because some committee, somewhere, at some time decided that's what they wanted.
     
  18. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    No I shoot 1oz at 1200 fps for trap.The 1350 is for my call shot for Annie Oaklys.I think top velocity for 1 oz in ATA trap is 1325 fps.

    Darr Wilson
     
  19. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
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    Good comments. I just figured that if the ATA were to reconsider the limit on loads, those who wanted to shoot more than 1 1/8 oz. could do so. This would help some be more competitive. The reason to limit loads to 1 1/8 seems kind of arbitrary...unless there is some technical reason we don't know about. Thanks, Ed
     
  20. 1Trapshooter1

    1Trapshooter1 TS Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Sorry, but I really don't see any difference in 1 1/8 vs 1 oz except for recoil, and that I can usually hit the target harder with 1 1/8. I have shot 1 oz and 1 1/8 throughout this year and there is not one target that i have missed that would've been dead if I had been shooting a 1 1/18 oz shell rather than 1 oz. JMO.

    Chris
     
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